Easy mark, being a softie....

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Chasper

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My 14 year old daughter did a babysitting job a couple months back; 10 hours, three young kids, a little cooking and cleaning. It was probably worth more than the $40 she got paid. Then the check bounced.

Single mother, recently abandon by a husband who took a job out of town and found a girlfriend (or so she says). I've tried everything; phone calls, letters, emails, sms etc. Initially we got a promise that she would make it good, now we get no response. I'm afraid that its about at the point that if I knock on her door one more time or stop her in the supermarket one more time that she will be thinking restraining order. The checking account is closed, I suspect there are many other creditors trying to collect as well.

I don't need this $40 nearly as much as she does. I can pay my daughter myself. But would that be the wrong thing to do. Or I can file a claim in small claims court, I've been there a few times before; $75 to file, she probably won't appear, default judgement, garnashment order, maybe collect, probably not. Or I can just get the prosecuter's office to send her a threatening letter (actually I already did that). Now I can tell them she still won't respond and they will put her in cuffs and haul her away. But who will look after the kids? I think I would rather just do without the $40.

So what would you do? I'm probably too soft, but I'm thinking about letting her off the hook.
 
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I guess I just have a soft spot for single mothers whose dead beat husbands have walked out on them, but it sounds like you've been pretty hard on her already.

To look at it another way, there is a lesson in this whole story that you could use to teach your daughter that is worth way more than $40.
 
I have to believe that this woman would have paid up if she had not fallen on hard times. I agree with Keith...let it go. If it was my daughter, I'd give her half the money to make letting it go easier to swallow, then teach her the lesson about negotiating up front that she only accepts cash immediately after services are rendered. I wish you luck with whatever you decide to do.
-Tim
 
Since it wasn't more than time lost, it could be considered "volunteer" work for someone who could obviously use it. If it was a matter of payment for something like a gold ring or other item that has inherent worth, that might be a different scenario.
 
What does your daughter think is the best course of action? Make sure she knows all the info, discuss the pros and cons of each course of action, then let her decide what to do.
 
Sounds like a good time for a daddy-n-daughter Ice cream trip. Making sure she knows the complete story, asking her what she thinks should be the next step, and help her complete what she wants to do. Just sounds like a great teaching opportunity on so many fronts. Time spent with dad is worth a whole lot more than the 40$.
 
I tend to agree with others here. Great learning opportunity. Ask her what she would do in this ladies place. 40 bucks is the least of this woman's problems. "Sure would hate to see you in that situation sweetie", might be a good thing to discuss with your daughter.

Also, I might be just as open to the idea of asking your daughter if she might go visit the lady in person dismiss the debt and offer to watch those kids again a time or two just to help out as a neighbor and friend.

It's ok to have a soft spot, she probably needs someone to show her that she is worth befriending right now.

Just my 2 pieces of copper,

Larry

p.s. might be a good chance for you and your daughter to turn a pen together as a pretty gift.
 
let me get this right...she has the girl sit her kids cleans the house, writes a bad check, has not made good on the check and you want the kid to make her a pen??????

The woman took advantage of the girl,
I dont think making a pen for a deadbeat is the thing to do.

I guess Im jaded nowdays
 
I'm going to agree with the others.

I know that most of you don't know what I do for a living, but I am a collector for a loan company. A part of me doesn't like what I do....having to collect bad debt. BUT in this economy it is common that people are having difficulty, and it sounds like she is really suffering. One thing I've learned is...if you push people...one of two things will happen.

1. They will run...

2. They will pay.

If you show this woman some compassion, and perhaps do what hayseed said...she will not forget what was done for her and you will be more likely to get your money, maybe not tomorrow or a month from now....but when she can see the light of day...she will remember your kindness. And if she doesn't....you and your daughter can feel good about the fact that you showed someone compassion that no one else has in a while. I would remember you and your daughter.....for as long as I lived! And if I were her, I would be determined to repay you somehow.
 
There are lots of good ideas and views being shared here. Having worked with disabled kids all of my professional life (38 years) one thing I've learned is this ...... the kid who gives you the most trouble ... the one you have completely had it with ... the one you are ready to strangle .... is the kid who needs you the most. That's the kid who most needs your love and compassion. I don't think it's any different in dealing with this lady. The fact of the matter is ... she probably doesn't have the $40 and there's no way your going to get it from her. Use it as a learning experience for her and your daughter.

With that said, I like the idea of sitting down with your daughter, having some ice cream, and getting her to discuss her options. I'd then steer her in Larry's direction with a little variation ..... have her say to the mother something like .... "I know you would have paid me if you could have ..... and I don't like being stiffed ... but, I also know you're a good person and need some help. So, I'm going to forget about the $40 and even babysit another time or two. Maybe one day, when you get the moola .... you'll be able to repay me the $40."

Turning a pen with your daughter ... to give the lady ... may be therapeutic for your daughter and a great bonding experience. Giving the pen to the mom might be a good ice breaker for when your daughter approaches her.
 
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You won't ever see a dime from her and the $40 is the last of her worries if she had closed the account and the check bounced up front. I think it was the wrong thing for her to do though if she didn't have the $$. I hope that the sitting was because the lady had to go to work and not some birthday party. Anyway, I would consider it a lesson learned and from now on cash only. Heck, I'd probably give my kid $20 and explain a life lesson.

As to making a pen and giving it to her, she doesn't want to see or hear from you anymore. The best thing for her would be to never hear from you again. getting a pen would be the last thing on her mind and I doubt you would be well recieved.

As someone who has done lots of work and never gotten paid, walking away is sometimes the best remedy.
 
I used to have a reatil business and have a number of similar experiences, so my opnion may be a bit jaded as well. So I have to reply contrary to advice given by Larry and my good friend Al. Yes, it is "possible" that doing what they suggest "could" eventually net your daughter some monetary returns. But from my experience it isn't at all "probable". If your daughter wants to be charitable and sit for this woman again for free, I will be the first to commend her for it. Charity is a great thing. I just like to make sure it is deserved. The fact that she closed her account says more about what's going on than anything else. She's knows she has a lot of bad paper out there and closed the account so the bank can't hit her with loads of 25$ returned check charges. And you don't do that by "accident". Anyone old enough to have several kids "knows" how much they have in their checking account. Yes, accounting errors do occur, but this doesn't have the earmarks of one.

So what's the solution? It's up to you and your daughter, but I'd just write it off as a life lesson. The woman may well need help, but she premeditatedly wrote bad checks. That speaks enough of her character (ot lack thereof) for me.
 
Forgive me for disagreeing with most of you but this woman wrote a check from a closed account. She knew what she was doing and she knew she didn't have the money when she had the babysitter work. Your bank might work different then mine, but mine charges me for someone else's bounced check (normally $25). So not only would are you out $40 but also $25 extra. Think of it this way for a minute, this girl is working a job (babysitting). Imagine that you took your paycheck from your job to the bank to find out it was no good. How much compassion would you have for your boss at that point? I know of a lot of small business owners that fall on hard times and can't pay their employees. If you were that employee, would you be able to have compassion when you didn't get the paycheck you worked hard for? This would not have bothered me so much if the OP had not said the lady's checking account was closed which means she wrote bad checks knowing she couldn't cover them. That is illegal in all 50 states last time I checked. I work at a prison where we have plenty of criminals locked up for passing bad or forged checks. Again if this had been a simple mistake (and I have made some of those myself) and the lady had said she would pay the money back when she could, then I would have a lot more compassion. The only thing I would agree with is to use this as a learning experience with your daughter and make sure she takes cash or money orders only from now on. I know I will get flamed for this, but too many people now are taking advantage of other people's kindness and compassion. I am part of the younger generation and I see too many people of my age that expect handouts and something for nothing and I just don't understand it. Maybe this situation is different but it just doesn't seem that way. Sorry to sound so mean and uncompassionate but I have been on both sides of this and it's just wrong.
 
After nearly 40 years in business, I've been on the receiving end of my share of bad checks, but as Billy says it is the "pre-meditated" bad checks that really rankle. Closing the account so the bad paper won't be able to find its way home is theft, just as sure as picking my pocket and taking my cash.

Normally I would move on, (and I will this time as well) but the fact that the check was written to a 14 year old for babysitting is over the top. I'm not above spending a few hundred dollars to collect $40, just to show my daughter that fairness is worth fighting for.

I'm not personally convinced that her story is true, some guy was mowing her lawn when I drove past her house once. I'm also not sure that she isn't telling the truth about being a single parent. However, I'd rather that we were taken advantage of than to add to the turmoil that a single mother is going through over a deadbeat dad.

As several of you have point out, there are other valuable lessons that my daughter can learn from this. Thanks.
 
Rob, you need to get a different bank then if they would charge you $25 if the check the other person wrote was a bad one. Understandable though if you wrote a check against the new balance and then didn't have sufficient funds to cover.
 
I would not continue to chase after the $40. It sounds like you may have already broken some laws and can get yourself in trouble for trying to collect. If you really want to colllect, you are going to have to go throught he proper chanels to do so......or you can hire a thug to go over there and "collect". Either way, you are going to get nothing if she has nothing.
 
$40.00 is one thing to me, another to a 14 year old that has worked for it, and yet another to a single mother that obviously can't pay it. That mother no matter how she got there is a single mother. For me the details do not matter, does a single mother who's husband died deserve compassion more than one that had her flaky husband abandon her? or even more than the one that flaked out and left her husband? I don't make decisions that way, either a single mother deserves a break or she does not, and live with it. Personally I would think that if she had 40 dollars she woudl have gladly paid it to keep a baby sitter. It is not easy to find sitter after sitter because you cannot pay them in the first place.
Next about your 14 year old. on the one hand it is a chance for her to learn that people will take advantage of her. and to learn to evaluate people as to there quality. But I woudl also think that 14 is to young to pay that high a price for a life lesson. She has already had to go without her money for quite a while. Bottom line that is your judgment to make as it comes with the job of dad. I would pay my daughter out of my pocket or half or whatever I thought was best for my daughter. My job is to help my children grow and learn to care for themselves. I would also be more involved in teaching my daughter how to deciding who she choses to work for in the future. Flakes are flakes and the signs can be seen if you know what to look for. Chasing her around is not going to produce $40 for her to give you. She is way to busy finding the next babysitter she cannot pay.
 
I can agree with most.......let it go! It's probably not worth the effort and agravation to try and get the money owed.

But, another point......if there were fee assesed to you for an INF check.......it's not only the $40 that was lost, but also the bank fees you were assesed. If someone writes a knowingly bad check (which looks like it happened here) the writer is not only liable for the cost of the bad check ($40) and fees you were charged........she'd also be liable for treble damages.......that's 3 times the amount written on the check, plus court costs.

You can file a complaint with the DA in the town/county and they will take it from there. You may never see the money, but the lady will also know that there's a time for reconing.....and it will not just be to your daughter!

Who knows all the goings on that she may of been doing to not only your daughter, but others also. Her next visit may be from the sherrif and he'll have some pretty braclets for her to try on. As far as her kids are concerned.......there's probably grandparents on both sides that could/would take care of them......anyway, it's not something for you to worry about when it comes to collecting your debt.

Someone writing a check on a 'Closed' checking account is over the TOP and as such I don't feel too much consideration needs to be dispensed in her direction.......she will get what she deserves.

Remember this saying......."Evil flourishes where good men do nothing!" What she did was way pass wrong.......at least take it to the DA and let them deal with it.......they have what it takes to take care of this lady. After that, like others have said, take you daughter out for ice cream or even a daddy/daughter diner. Talk with her about this and if it was me.....I'd pay my daughter the $40 and let her know that I love her and really appreciated her and everything she does.

I'll get off my soap box now........


Later.........
 
It is a good lesson in helping your daughter understand how fear makes people panic and do things that might not do otherwise. I think that compassion is important, but it is also necessary to discuss that some people are dishonest and that it is important to negotiate up front about rates and methods of payment before doing a job.
As for turning a pen with your daughter it would be a nice way for you to spend time together if it is something she would like to do. Otherwise do something she like doing. If you do turn a pen give it to your daughter. If you can't find the woman to pay her, how will you give her a pen and why? It is important that her behavior not be rewarded, even if she has fallen on hard times. I also work with people who have hard times, and have had them myself. My clients, nor I have ever been dishonest in our difficult times.
 
I will agree with a few of the responses, but not with the majority! That woman wrote a bad check knowingly on a closed account. You also said you have seen someone else mowing her lawn, and are not completely sure of her story about the dead-beat dad. This sounds like the woman is deliberately trying to get something for nothing, and reminds me of the number of people I have previously encountered who went around to churches with long, sob, stories, trying to get freebies and hand-outs. I know of more than one occassion when these whole families were offered a free motel room for one night, and a free meal at a certain cafe, but stated they didn't want to stay there, and just give them the money instead. They got nothing! If you do nothing, then they have won, and will your daughter look at this as a learning experience, and move on, or become jaded and feel that if this woman got away with it, maybe she could also at some time later in life.

I think the correct lesson for your daughter is that law-breakers deserve to get punished, BUT by the authorities, not you. Turn it over to the DA, then help your daughter out if you feel the need to, but explain that breaking the law and doing what this woman did is wrong. Don't worry about the kids, they will be taken care of.

I know I will get flamed by this, but this is my opinion.
 
great12b4ever said:
I will agree with a few of the responses, but not with the majority! That woman wrote a bad check knowingly on a closed account. You also said you have seen someone else mowing her lawn, and are not completely sure of her story about the dead-beat dad. This sounds like the woman is deliberately trying to get something for nothing, and reminds me of the number of people I have previously encountered who went around to churches with long, sob, stories, trying to get freebies and hand-outs. I know of more than one occassion when these whole families were offered a free motel room for one night, and a free meal at a certain cafe, but stated they didn't want to stay there, and just give them the money instead. They got nothing! If you do nothing, then they have won, and will your daughter look at this as a learning experience, and move on, or become jaded and feel that if this woman got away with it, maybe she could also at some time later in life.

I think the correct lesson for your daughter is that law-breakers deserve to get punished, BUT by the authorities, not you. Turn it over to the DA, then help your daughter out if you feel the need to, but explain that breaking the law and doing what this woman did is wrong. Don't worry about the kids, they will be taken care of.

I know I will get flamed by this, but this is my opinion.
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Well said Rob I could'nt agree more!
 
Sounds like a good time for a DADDY Date

Take you daughter out for a DADDY date. The time you have together is priceless.

As for the woman who wrote the check...SHE choose to break the law. SHE knew she was writing a check on a closed account. Turn it over to the authorities and them deal with it legally. If she would write a bad check to a 14 year old, she would do it to others. You probably would not be the only one filing a complaint with the DA.
 
I am sorry your daughter has to learn this lesson at such a young and tender age.

However, sometimes people do surprise me. My wife got a call from the grandmother of one of her students. The students mother had been arrested and put in jail on a bogus charge brought by her no-account soon to be ex-husband. The grandmother called from VT (we are in UT). She asked my wife to bail her daughter out of jail to the tune of $500. I advised her that she'd likely never see that money again. She felt it was something that she wanted to do even if she was out the money. I told her that she was a better and more compassionate person than I am or will ever be.

To wrap up the story about a month ago there came a cashier's check in the mail from the daughter for $500. Renewed our faith in people.
 
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