Dumb Stabilization idea

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secureideas

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Hi all,

Dumb question time. I have been watching videos around dying and stabilizing wood. I have all the pieces needed except the oven. Talking to a friend we had a weird idea. Would I be able to use my sous vide to replace the oven? I would take the wood, wrap it, and vacuum seal it. Then I would put it in the bath to cure it.

Another idea was to use a dehydrator instead of an oven.

So has anyone done this? Or am I crazy and missing something?

Kevin
 
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secureideas said:
Hi all,

Dumb question time. I have been watching videos around dying and stabilizing wood. I have all the pieces needed except the oven. Talking to a friend we had a weird idea. Would I be able to use my sous vide to replace the oven? I would take the wood, wrap it, and vacuum seal it. Then I would put it in the bath to cure it.

Another idea was to use a dehydrator instead of an oven.

So has anyone done this? Or am I crazy and missing something?

Kevin
Click to expand...
I'm not sure either one would be effective depending on what stabilization medium you're using. For Cactus juice they recommend 100-200 deg F for 10 minutes at the center of a piece to cure. Not sure about the sous vide but I don't think most dehydrators will get your temp there. I think mine taps out at 165 deg F.
 
InkyMike said:
I'm not sure either one would be effective depending on what stabilization medium you're using. For Cactus juice they recommend 100-200 deg F for 10 minutes at the center of a piece to cure. Not sure about the sous vide but I don't think most dehydrators will get your temp there. I think mine taps out at 165 deg F.
Click to expand...
That's 190-200F
 
secureideas said:
Hi all,

Dumb question time. I have been watching videos around dying and stabilizing wood. I have all the pieces needed except the oven. Talking to a friend we had a weird idea. Would I be able to use my sous vide to replace the oven? I would take the wood, wrap it, and vacuum seal it. Then I would put it in the bath to cure it.

Another idea was to use a dehydrator instead of an oven.

So has anyone done this? Or am I crazy and missing something?

Kevin
Click to expand...

Using cactus juice, you will need a small oven no mater what.
I have no idea what a "sous vide" is
Ahh. Just read an about "Sous Vide". As someone mentioned above, it's temperature would be to low. And I would be very nervous about moisture contamination. Cactus Juice really, really, really hates water.
For drying, I have wondered the same thing about the dehydrator. I am not comfortable leaving a toaster oven on for many hours so thought the dehydrator would be a good alternative. But I have never used one, and have no idea how they function.
I would love to hear someone's experience.
 
The sous vide I have will go to 212F, so it handles the range well. It is also designed for long term cooking/heating. As to moisture, absolutely a problem if the bag heats, but typically that only happens if I do something dumb and puncture the bag or fail to seal it properly.

The big question I think is if Cactus Juice requires some type of air flow to finish curing or if the activator works on heat alone. If it is just heat, the sous vide should work. If it is some form of transfer using air, such as evaporation, then it won't.
I am going to see if I have some time this weekend to try it. Worse that happens is I waste some CJ and a piece of wood.
 
secureideas said:
The sous vide I have will go to 212F, so it handles the range well. It is also designed for long term cooking/heating. As to moisture, absolutely a problem if the bag heats, but typically that only happens if I do something dumb and puncture the bag or fail to seal it properly.

The big question I think is if Cactus Juice requires some type of air flow to finish curing or if the activator works on heat alone. If it is just heat, the sous vide should work. If it is some form of transfer using air, such as evaporation, then it won't.
I am going to see if I have some time this weekend to try it. Worse that happens is I waste some CJ and a piece of wood.
Click to expand...
Would be interesting to hear your results.
 
If you are vacuum sealing the blanks to put in the sous vide bath after stabilizing, wouldn't you be pulling the resin back out of the wood as you vacuum seal the wood in the bags?
 
hooked said:
If you are vacuum sealing the blanks to put in the sous vide bath after stabilizing, wouldn't you be pulling the resin back out of the wood as you vacuum seal the wood in the bags?
Click to expand...
The vacuum you pull for that is minor and shouldn't do that. But if it appears to be a problem, I would just switch to the water method. Basically you putt a ziploc in the water and have the water pressure remove the air from the bag. I do this with any cooking I am doing that has sauce or such on it.
 
It has been a while but I have read of a few people using a dehydrator to dry blanks, and with the temp getting to probably 120° or even 130° it should work for curing. IF you already have one, give it a try and see what happens. Don't do it in the house as you might not like the specific smell that comes off. Take your normal precautions with smell and fumes.
 
Interesting question for stabilizing and good info here.
Kevin, my father always said the only dumb question was the one not asked. One of the great things about the forum is the vast amount of experience, observations, etc. by the members. As you have seen, members are quick to respond to questions.
 
Curtis, the inventor of cactus juice stresses that wood needs to be dried at a temperature just above the boiling point of water for 24 hours prior to the stabilization process. I have always followed his advise and haven't had issues.
 
darrin1200 said:
Using cactus juice, you will need a small oven no mater what.
I have no idea what a "sous vide" is
Ahh. Just read an about "Sous Vide". As someone mentioned above, it's temperature would be to low. And I would be very nervous about moisture contamination. Cactus Juice really, really, really hates water.
For drying, I have wondered the same thing about the dehydrator. I am not comfortable leaving a toaster oven on for many hours so thought the dehydrator would be a good alternative. But I have never used one, and have no idea how they function.
I would love to hear someone's experience.
Click to expand...
I used a dehydrator on some local cherry recently. It worked pretty well - you just have to watch that you don't try and dry anything too big too fast or else it can crack.
 
All else aside--i will never have another toaster oven on my property. On two different toaster ovens, both purchased new and still relatively new--the thermometer on my PID controller set to turn off at 160 f, would routinely rise from 160 to well over 350 f AFTER the the heating element shut off. Then one morning i walked into my detached garage/shop to find the toaster oven looking charred and with a half dozen piles of ashes shaped exactly like the buckeye burl i'd put in the night before. Spent $50 on an old stone/brick lined lab oven that draws 4 amps instead of 15 and is absolutely stable in temp.
The electric heating elements still emit heat after the power is removed, so the small cavity continues to get warmer. I'm fortunate enough to have only burnt the oven--could have been my garage & tools. Folks doing this in their basement shops have much more to lose than stuff.
Many of you have heard this story from me more than once, but i'll keep repeating it--i won't have a toaster oven at all. For those that do choose to use a toaster oven--the good news is that the used $5 versions are probably just as safe as a brand-spankin' new $80 version...helps offset the deductible on the fire insurance.

Rant ended--and i'll crawl back into the Apple Fritter Cake that one of my coworkers made for my birthday!! New recipe for her, and incredible!! (and probably as unsafe as a toaster oven, but a slower and tastier health risk!!)
earl
 
greenacres2 said:
All else aside--i will never have another toaster oven on my property. On two different toaster ovens, both purchased new and still relatively new--the thermometer on my PID controller set to turn off at 160 f, would routinely rise from 160 to well over 350 f AFTER the the heating element shut off. Then one morning i walked into my detached garage/shop to find the toaster oven looking charred and with a half dozen piles of ashes shaped exactly like the buckeye burl i'd put in the night before. Spent $50 on an old stone/brick lined lab oven that draws 4 amps instead of 15 and is absolutely stable in temp.
The electric heating elements still emit heat after the power is removed, so the small cavity continues to get warmer. I'm fortunate enough to have only burnt the oven--could have been my garage & tools. Folks doing this in their basement shops have much more to lose than stuff.
Many of you have heard this story from me more than once, but i'll keep repeating it--i won't have a toaster oven at all. For those that do choose to use a toaster oven--the good news is that the used $5 versions are probably just as safe as a brand-spankin' new $80 version...helps offset the deductible on the fire insurance.

Rant ended--and i'll crawl back into the Apple Fritter Cake that one of my coworkers made for my birthday!! New recipe for her, and incredible!! (and probably as unsafe as a toaster oven, but a slower and tastier health risk!!)
earl
Click to expand...
This is exactly why I am curious about the sous vide. I am concerned about a cheap toaster oven unattended in my garage.
 
I use a toaster oven but rarely leave it unattended. If I do I turn on my phone and connect to the bluetooth thermometer I have set inside my stove. The thermometer has a high and low limit setting I can engage that will alert me if the temperature goes high. For drying wood, I normally set mine at 275 degrees. If something out of the ordinary goes on, then my phone will alarm at full volume.
 
ccccchunt said:
I use a toaster oven but rarely leave it unattended. If I do I turn on my phone and connect to the bluetooth thermometer I have set inside my stove. The thermometer has a high and low limit setting I can engage that will alert me if the temperature goes high. For drying wood, I normally set mine at 275 degrees. If something out of the ordinary goes on, then my phone will alarm at full volume.
Click to expand...
Do you ever have issues with cracking when drying at that high of a temperature?
 
InkyMike said:
Do you ever have issues with cracking when drying at that high of a temperature?
Click to expand...
I have not had a problem with cracking. Although on very wet burl blanks, I sometimes get some warping. Truth be told, I'm normally drying blanks to cast as hybrids so cracks look cool when filled with resin. It's also a great way to get bark off the burls. I just wet down the outer surface (bark) and bake them. During the drying, it pulls the bark away a bit so I can chip it off easier.
 
I've already cured stabilized pen blanks in hot water. It does work but it's not as practical as curing it in the oven.
Note that I do not have access to cactus juice but to an alternative of it (I think it has the same components). The curing process happens between 80°C and 100°C.
The early tests I've made I hade no specific oven for this. I will never use the same oven as the one we cook into as I think the fumes are pretty toxic. I thus used hot bath water. I wrapped the blanks with a heat resistant transparent clingfilm for food. Left them in hot water around 90°C for 90 minutes. I think this timing was enough to reach a 90°C on the inside of the blanks for a minimum of 15mins.
 
secureideas said:
Hi all,

Dumb question time. I have been watching videos around dying and stabilizing wood. I have all the pieces needed except the oven. Talking to a friend we had a weird idea. Would I be able to use my sous vide to replace the oven? I would take the wood, wrap it, and vacuum seal it. Then I would put it in the bath to cure it.

Another idea was to use a dehydrator instead of an oven.

So has anyone done this? Or am I crazy and missing something?

Kevin
Click to expand...
I'm new to stabilization- has anyone used an electric smoker to cure stabilized blanks-obviously a new one or well cleaned one? I really don't want to go the toaster oven route because my shop in in the house so I am concerned about fumes.
 
secureideas said:
Hi all,

Dumb question time. I have been watching videos around dying and stabilizing wood. I have all the pieces needed except the oven. Talking to a friend we had a weird idea. Would I be able to use my sous vide to replace the oven? I would take the wood, wrap it, and vacuum seal it. Then I would put it in the bath to cure it.

Another idea was to use a dehydrator instead of an oven.

So has anyone done this? Or am I crazy and missing something?

Kevin
Click to expand...
I wouldn't think so. Sous vide uses the water to cook whatever you have sealed but any moisture in the wood would be trapped, unlike an oven where it would evaporate away.

The evaporator might work but you need to get the wood to a temp where the water turns to steam, so 212F +. Also, you need to heat the wood once it's soaked in Cactus Juice to activate the resin to harden. Again, that's around 200F.
 
walko789 said:
I'm new to stabilization- has anyone used an electric smoker to cure stabilized blanks-obviously a new one or well cleaned one? I really don't want to go the toaster oven route because my shop in in the house so I am concerned about fumes.
Click to expand...
Yes, you should be able to use an electric smoker and I believe a few on here already do so. I plan to in the future.
 
WoodfulProjects said:
I've already cured stabilized pen blanks in hot water. It does work but it's not as practical as curing it in the oven.
Note that I do not have access to cactus juice but to an alternative of it (I think it has the same components). The curing process happens between 80°C and 100°C.
The early tests I've made I hade no specific oven for this. I will never use the same oven as the one we cook into as I think the fumes are pretty toxic. I thus used hot bath water. I wrapped the blanks with a heat resistant transparent clingfilm for food. Left them in hot water around 90°C for 90 minutes. I think this timing was enough to reach a 90°C on the inside of the blanks for a minimum of 15mins.
Click to expand...

May I ask why you say "it's not as practical as curing it in the oven"? If it works, what is the difference? And yes I need to try it myself, but I have been swamped at work.
 
ccccchunt said:
If you are looking at stabilizing with Cactus Juice then you will have to use an oven that reaches and maintains 190 degrees. Otherwise the stabilizing agent will not cure.
Click to expand...
Hi. Concerning stabilisation is there a formula to know how long must the piece be in the oven depending on the thickness, area?
 
Gonna get on my soap box here... Toaster overs, cheap electric smokers, etc are fires just waiting to happen. Get the right tools for the job. A curing or lab oven can be had for just a couple hundred bucks used if you look around. They do not have exposed heating elements, have considerably better electronics, and you won't risk burning down a building to save a few bucks. Every year we see stories that go from "oh i just got a cheap toaster oven it's all you need" that end with a structure fire.

As for the sous vide.... I'm not putting the chemicals used to stabilize anywhere near my kitchen. If you have a spare one you just want to play with, it would be interesting to see the results but considering the gases usually released when these are cured in an oven I'd be curious to see what happens with the bag when it heats up. (also.. not something to try in the house)
 
McKenzie Penworks said:
Gonna get on my soap box here... Toaster overs, cheap electric smokers, etc are fires just waiting to happen. Get the right tools for the job. A curing or lab oven can be had for just a couple hundred bucks used if you look around. They do not have exposed heating elements, have considerably better electronics, and you won't risk burning down a building to save a few bucks. Every year we see stories that go from "oh i just got a cheap toaster oven it's all you need" that end with a structure fire.

As for the sous vide.... I'm not putting the chemicals used to stabilize anywhere near my kitchen. If you have a spare one you just want to play with, it would be interesting to see the results but considering the gases usually released when these are cured in an oven I'd be curious to see what happens with the bag when it heats up. (also.. not something to try in the house)
Click to expand...
Good advice.
 
McKenzie Penworks said:
Gonna get on my soap box here... Toaster overs, cheap electric smokers, etc are fires just waiting to happen. Get the right tools for the job. A curing or lab oven can be had for just a couple hundred bucks used if you look around. They do not have exposed heating elements, have considerably better electronics, and you won't risk burning down a building to save a few bucks. Every year we see stories that go from "oh i just got a cheap toaster oven it's all you need" that end with a structure fire.

As for the sous vide.... I'm not putting the chemicals used to stabilize anywhere near my kitchen. If you have a spare one you just want to play with, it would be interesting to see the results but considering the gases usually released when these are cured in an oven I'd be curious to see what happens with the bag when it heats up. (also.. not something to try in the house)
Click to expand...

I paid $50 for my lab oven, plus a 24 mile round-trip to pick up. Don't recall the weight, but it's dense. Takes a little time to come up to temperature--maybe 20-25 minutes, but stays stable. Best part, i think the amp draw is rated at 3.5 or 4--way lower than the best toaster oven. When i'm looking at using a 24-36 hour drying before the juice and 12 +/- hours to cure, that amp draw makes a difference over time.
earl
 
greenacres2 said:
I paid $50 for my lab oven, plus a 24 mile round-trip to pick up. Don't recall the weight, but it's dense. Takes a little time to come up to temperature--maybe 20-25 minutes, but stays stable. Best part, i think the amp draw is rated at 3.5 or 4--way lower than the best toaster oven. When i'm looking at using a 24-36 hour drying before the juice and 12 +/- hours to cure, that amp draw makes a difference over time.
earl
Click to expand...
Our little one sips power.... but when we started doing a bunch of big stuff I dropped some coin on a 28cuft monster. 7500 watts and 50amps. Pretty sure the electric company had to put in a digital meter so the other one didn't spin so fast it took off ;)
 
McKenzie Penworks said:
Our little one sips power.... but when we started doing a bunch of big stuff I dropped some coin on a 28cuft monster. 7500 watts and 50amps. Pretty sure the electric company had to put in a digital meter so the other one didn't spin so fast it took off ;)
Click to expand...
That's a big monkey!! Actually, pretty efficient--about 100 times bigger than mine, and only takes about 15 times the amps. So...that should make the next electric bill feel better. 😂
 
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