Did I do the right thing?

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rjwolfe3

rjwolfe3

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Joined
Feb 12, 2008
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Mansfield, Ohio, USA.
I need to know what some of you would have done. I had a company (very big company) contact me at the beginning of the year. They wanted about 100 high end pens for a customer appreciation conference they were doing in August. We started working on the details over a few phone calls and emails. They said they would contact me when they were ready to place the order. I told them I needed time to do that many pens because they were high end and they wanted them laser engraved. I figured I would need around 2-3 months (order parts, turn, and laser engrave plus ship time) because I work a full time job and turn on the side (for now). So I waited for them to reply with the go ahead.

To make a long story short, I finally heard from them at the beginning of this month. I had given up on it since I hadn't heard from them. I ended up turning it down. I would have only had about 5 weeks to get everything done including ordering supplies, turning and assembly, and then shipping to a laser engraving. Now I am wondering if I did the right thing. I am kicking myself :beat-up: because there was the potential to make about $5,000 off of the sale plus get my pens in the hands of about 100 CEO's of major corporations.

So I am wondering, what would you guys have done? Could you have finished this order in around 5 weeks? Should I have gone ahead with it? I am assuming they found another company by now but I just wonder if I wasted an awesome opportunity.:confused::frown:
 
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I would have done it but then iam retired and can turn all day if i want to. Would have made them pay at least 50% up front.
But that is just me.

Dannie
 
I look at it this way. If you don't think you had the time to do a good job, then you did the right thing. I think that having crappy pens in their hands because you had to rush the job is worse than not having your pens in their hands at all. That COULD have turned into bad advertising instead of good. Or if you hadn't met the deadline, the company that placed the order would probably give you a bad reputation even though you told them how much time you needed.
Your first instinct is usually the best decision, so don't second guess yourself.
 
Rob, I know it's tough to let something go sometimes, but I think you did the right thing.

5 weeks lead time is too little for a quality job on something like this. Unless you were able to take a vacation from the day job (Paid only) and dedicate the time to this for a week, you'd be regretting the outcome I bet.

Hopefully, they will just find something else for this year, and come back to you next year a little earlier.
 
What was your turnaround time on the laser engraving? How many days were wasted on shipping? For 5 grand you could overnight much of it and had to turn a hundred pens in about 2 weeks. thats 10 a day in a 6 day week Is 5 grand on top of the hard costs? My short answer without more details would be yes. But I dont know if you have a day job, that would complicate things.

I would like to add that the toughest thing in business is to know when to say no.
 
Sounded like a good opportunity if you had been given enough time. 100 high end pens in 35 days, including time to order and receive materials and send finished pens for laser engraving.....so maybe 3 weeks actual turning/finishing/assembly time. I think 15 days would be a tough schedule to complete 6+ high end pens per day, given that you work full time, and still need time for your other household responsibilities, sleep, eating, etc. I think you would sacrifice quality, and ultimately reputation, if you tried to rush through it in that short time frame.

I'd keep in touch with your contact, and see if they're interested in this on an annual basis -- get your foot in the door for next year.
 
Rob I would say you did exactly the right thing. Your work is the best you do and it can not be rushed or any corners cut. If you were short pens at the deadline that would be worse than turning it down and if your pens were not up to your standards then you would not feel comfortable giving them. Now I myself would have perhaps called before my drop dead got to get started date to touch base. I would let them know the type and quality pen with the work involved will take this amount of time I need to know this week. I feel it is better to have passed on a opportunity than to turn over work you are not happy with. With a full time job too rushed to finish and having to wait on engraving and praying for no glitches. Remember being tired and in a rush is what causes accidents, get em next time. Start talking about Christmas!!!!1
 
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What I would have done and what you should have done are not necessarily the same thing, you had to do what worked for you. But you asked if I would have taken the order and if I could have made the deadline, the answer to both questions is yes.

I don't think the timing would be a problem, I make pens at a faster rate than that, including personalization. The questions to me would have been, can I make more money during this than something else during the same time period? Can I put other work on hold long enough to do this job?
 
I would have done the same thing. I get in the shop a max of 4 nights a week. In 5 weeks, that's 5 pens a night. Sleep is over-rated, but I need it. I personally would not have taken it. But, that's just me. There will be other opportunities.
 
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Rob, just my 2 cents, but 7 months ago you told them you would need 2-3 months to make the order. They waited way too long to confirm it. You probably could have pressured yourself and gotten it completed, if everything went well, which it doesn't. To bad they missed the opportunity to get some great pens, their loss.
 
A possibility that no one has mentioned:
"Farm out" part of the job.

Would I have done it--yes. I have made several friends on the IAP who turn a magnificent pen. I would call two and get each to turn 30 or 35, in about a week. Then, the deadline is easy.

Lots of engravers on IAP can turn the job around in a couple days.

At least explore this possibility, after giving the customer a firm "maybe".

This would cut down your profit, but it also cuts down your stress!!!

FWIW
 
I know you're kicking yourself Rob but you did right. Day job aside and sleep time, maybe 6 hrs a day. You would have honestly have gotten tired of making the same type/style pen in such a short period of time would have slowed you down as well. Just stay in contact with them for possible future orders.
 
I would have done the same thing too Rob. I can't make that many pens that fast even without shipping them for engraving. You can't farm out the work either, because you can only trust yourself to get the job done and to your satisfaction. I have a couple corporate customers and they know that I require 6 weeks lead time just to make a couple pens. That is not unreasonable.
 
ed4copies said:
A possibility that no one has mentioned:
"Farm out" part of the job.

Would I have done it--yes. I have made several friends on the IAP who turn a magnificent pen. I would call two and get each to turn 30 or 35, in about a week. Then, the deadline is easy.

Lots of engravers on IAP can turn the job around in a couple days.

At least explore this possibility, after giving the customer a firm "maybe".

This would cut down your profit, but it also cuts down your stress!!!

FWIW
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While I am not attempting to be a turner capable of such an order in such a time frame I will say this. Maybe you could have "farmed out" some things such as drilling and gluing tubes, squaring them up, etc. That being said I personally would never "farm out" the actual turning. If you think it was more than you could handle, well........... you done good. Maybe when they settle on whatever they get instead they will offer you more time in a future endeavor.

Landon
 
Having done a few large orders, I would have turned it down. They are a pain and if you like turning pens, after doing that order you would be sick of it. Yes the money is good but this is supposed to be a relaxing thing and who needs the stress of a deadline.
 
hunter-27 said:
While I am not attempting to be a turner capable of such an order in such a time frame I will say this. Maybe you could have "farmed out" some things such as drilling and gluing tubes, squaring them up, etc. That being said I personally would never "farm out" the actual turning. If you think it was more than you could handle, well........... you done good. Maybe when they settle on whatever they get instead they will offer you more time in a future endeavor.

Landon
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Actually, I would have agreed with your sentiment, before I attended IAP local meetings. NOW, there are a few people locally who turn a pen that is just as good as mine.
 
I probably would have done it. Just taken a couple days off from work and done overnight shipping. I would have check with the parts supplier and engraver first to make sure everything would have lined up right though....

I also have another full time job.
 
I basicly did the same thing on an order for 100 Jr. Statesman wrapped in the Stars and Bars blank. Turns out they did 10 with the option to do 10 at a time with more time to do the work.

I think the main thing is that a man has to know his limitations.
I could not turn a 100 pens in their time frame.

I think I just voted that you did the right thing.
 
If I "really", really wanted to land the order, I would probably request assistance from some of the IAP members here and share in the proceeds given the short lead time. A bit dicey, but I'd take a chance with a little help from my friends here.
 
On top of the time crunch, there's the fact that they were giving you a month to do a job that they were told would take 2 to 3 months. Assuming you made your time needs clear to them 7 months ago, that there would put a bad taste in my mouth from jump. Either they don't really appreciate what it takes to complete and order like that, or they don't care. Either way, not good. You did right.
 
I think you did the right thing -- It certainly would have been worse to accept the job and not be able to deliver to your standards.

-Barry
 
ed4copies said:
Actually, I would have agreed with your sentiment, before I attended IAP local meetings. NOW, there are a few people locally who turn a pen that is just as good as mine.
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I did not mean to imply my pens were any better or even as good as others. I only meant if they were just ordering pens from a company fine, if they were ordering MY pens, I would not outsource the turning of the pens. If it were of no difference to the customer that I did the work myself, "farm away".:wink:
 
I wouldn't have, too many "what if" factors that could screw up the who job. backorders, lost in the mail, blanks blew out, CA Finish failed (wrong colored socks), Engraver took too long, lost in the mail.... You gave a deadline and they failed to act. As hard as it is to walk away from a good sale like that, is it worth you burning yourself out?
 
There are so many things that can go wrong on an order - out of stock kit, materials that don't cooperate, finishes, engraver mistakes - each controllable with enough time. Sounds like you didn't have enough time.

Doesn't matter what other people "could have done." Add up the extra costs of rushing you would have incurred and the profit would not have been what you were anticipating. Your customer did you both a disservice. You had to turn the order down, not because of your capacity, because of their delay.
 
You didnt mention if the pens were wood or acrylic. Big difference in the amount of turn and finish time. It would have depended on this if I would have done it. And after about 50 they start getting really old.
 
I too would not have taken that on in that time frame. You would really become sick of turning pens after an order of that size. You did not say what the material was and that can make a huge difference because of the different finishing techniques needed for wood or acrylic. If you could not take time off with pay then the lost revenue from the job would be held against the final dollar outcome which would become less. Don't look back. If they were willing to give you a shot then they see something in your product so this opportunity may come up again.
 
Boy, that is a tough question. But I think that you did the right thing. No, wait, I am sure you did the right thing. Companies think that with money, deadlines disappear, but with hand crafted art money doesn't make time disappear.

Two weeks after their meeting this year contact them and ask about next year. Don't just call. Send an example of your best pen with a note telling them you will call them in a week and help them make next year's meeting more memorable. Whatever they do this year it will not be unique and individualize. Everyone has seen the catalogs of products for meetings, and with their deadline that is what they will have to do.
You must present that you are offering them the opportunity to do it right - next year.

Just my 2 cents with 30 years in marketing.
 
I think you allowed an important, valuable means of achieving your stated (or implied) goal to slip through your fingers. If the information
work a full time job and turn on the side (for now)
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indicates you want and/or plan to make turning your business then consider:

In your business discussion with the prospect, you specified a 2-3 month requirement for production.
That specification is part of your quality control.
By contacting you this late in the game, the prospect has given you reason to seek alternative means to achieving their needs.

Thus, I agree with Ed's idea of subcontracting the work out with the caveat that
if the buyer's expectation was that you were making 100% of the pens,
then they must be informed you will be working with associates of your choosing.

If they go for that, then you assemble your team and move forward.
Also, keep in mind, ONLY you get to know who else is doing the production.

There are many, many qualified artisans for the 100 pens this large company wants.
You previously controlled the ball. Now, the ball is back in play.
And there are plenty of pen turners looking for a ball just like that!
There are dozens of turners on this forum alone who produce pens
any of us would be proud to claim as equal to or better than our own.

I think you should immediately contact the buyer and see if you can regain control of the situation.
Next year, the ball will belong to someone else.
That's not good for your business.

My $.02 and worth all you paid for it, :biggrin:

Gary
 
Job or Hobby or Sideline

A while back a buyer for a company asked me if I would consider turning 500 pens for his company to give out as advertising gifts. I told him "not a chance"... turning pens is my hobby not my job and I don't want it to be my job.

Now if it was my job, I'd have said "yes but" and given him my schedule requirements including farming out the imprinting if any. Had he come back with an impossible schedule I'd have turned the work down...I have a policy to not promise what I can't deliver.

If it was a sideline I would have just said "too big a job for me but I know someone who would be interested if you'd like I'll contact him for you"

In your case, if you are selling (and they are buying) your pens as exclusively your handiwork than you did the right thing.

If they just wanted some real nice hand turned pens all of the same style, you could in good conscience have taken the job and subcontracted some of it out.
 
rjwolfe3 said:
I need to know what some of you would have done. I had a company (very big company) contact me at the beginning of the year. They wanted about 100 high end pens for a customer appreciation conference they were doing in August. We started working on the details over a few phone calls and emails. They said they would contact me when they were ready to place the order. I told them I needed time to do that many pens because they were high end and they wanted them laser engraved. I figured I would need around 2-3 months (order parts, turn, and laser engrave plus ship time) because I work a full time job and turn on the side (for now). So I waited for them to reply with the go ahead.

To make a long story short, I finally heard from them at the beginning of this month. I had given up on it since I hadn't heard from them. I ended up turning it down. I would have only had about 5 weeks to get everything done including ordering supplies, turning and assembly, and then shipping to a laser engraving. Now I am wondering if I did the right thing. I am kicking myself :beat-up: because there was the potential to make about $5,000 off of the sale plus get my pens in the hands of about 100 CEO's of major corporations.

So I am wondering, what would you guys have done? Could you have finished this order in around 5 weeks? Should I have gone ahead with it? I am assuming they found another company by now but I just wonder if I wasted an awesome opportunity.:confused::frown:
Click to expand...

I would of done exactly the same thing. It isn't about the money, it is about giving your customer a quality product. 5 weeks wouldn't been long enough to produce a quality product. Especially, when probably 2 weeks of that would of been shipping time.
 
Well the thing is that many companies think of lead time of days not weeks. You needed eight to twelve weeks for the job they only gave you four. For you to do the job in four weeks everything would have to gone perfectly. Your supplier had to have 100 kits in stock. You needed them shipped overnight. You had to have 100 perfect blanks not only waiting but drilled, glued and trimmed in record time. Your lathe had to run almost non stop for two weeks. Your laser engraver had to do a rush job perfectly the first time, in almost overnight time. Shipping had to go both ways several times, with fast precision. Yes you could have done the job if you had to, but the stress level would have been very high.

I am in the same type mess myself. Our local high school principal wants to give every Senior class member a pen engraved with their name and the graduation year. 132 pens in three and half weeks. I did have the kits on hand. I have more than enough blanks and have finished drilling 150 total for the entire job with a few extras for errors and blowups. Two thirds are glued and about half of the total are trimmed. Today I will finish gluing and the tomorrow they will all be trimmed. The first third have to be to the engraver ASAP. I am still waiting for a class roster, with corrected spelling of all names. If all goes as planned I figure I have exactly three days cushion for the entire schedule.

But to be fair, the world will not end if they are not ready the first day of school. My deadline is not nearly as hard as your would have been and I am getting stressed all the same. If you missed the deadline the entire sale may have been lost. Hard to give pens out after the meeting. I have to tell myself that this is just my hobby, that I do to lower the stress from my real job. I see that is working out real well right now.
 
Yea, the first big order I got from a cigar distributor was he wanted 20 pens by Friday. It was Wednesday. I told him I needed two weeks to complete them. If I had had 20 of the kits I needed in stock I would have done it (nothing better to do), but since I needed the kits it was impossible. The pens were for a bunch of sales reps. I was lucky, he gave them all nice cigar lighters and cutters that Friday, and called me asking if I could do 20 pens in 6 weeks.

My lesson learned was to keep as many kits in stock as I can afford to do. You never know when that special person will want a bunch of pens.
 
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