DurocShark
Member
I got a request for a seashell pen. Anything I should be warned about in turning or casting?
Crushed Seashell in PR?
- Thread starter DurocShark
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Rollerbob
Member
Only advice I can give you is if you're going to use that hammer again, watch your fingers!:tongue:
cnirenberg
Member
Don,
I saw a post by Alice Call yesterday on her experiences casting mother of pearl...may be of interest to you. I wonder how would you prep the shell so that it wouldn't affect the casting?
Gordon
Member
Don - I can't offer any advise - but it sounds like an interesting project - can you post a picture after you are done ?
Gordon
Gordon
DurocShark
Member
You know I will.
I'm not doing it like the MOP blanks. This will be a universal blank. Crushed seashell mixed with the PR and cast to a standard size (6"x1"x1"). I'll use clear PR and paint the drilled hole whatever color I decide to use as a background.
I was just worried about compatibility with the PR and any turning issues. It's awfully brittle so will require a light touch with the skew I expect. And a CA finish.
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
Are you going to try to keep the seashells all facing out? Thin enough to cut with wood turning tools? When the turner catches an edge of the shell, why won't it pop out?
I wish you luck, but these are the concerns that have kept us from doing this.
I wish you luck, but these are the concerns that have kept us from doing this.
DurocShark
Member
It sounds like I need to just do one to see...
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
Sorry, Don!!! I am NOT trying to talk you out of doing it.
When Dawn & I discuss these things, SHE takes the casting issues, I take the turning issues. IF we can't find good answers, we keep searching. This idea MAY WORK!!!!
But, having cast lots of stuff that did NOT work, those are a few of the issues.
I DO wish you success!!!
When Dawn & I discuss these things, SHE takes the casting issues, I take the turning issues. IF we can't find good answers, we keep searching. This idea MAY WORK!!!!
But, having cast lots of stuff that did NOT work, those are a few of the issues.
I DO wish you success!!!
Fred
Member
I would tend to go along with the casting experts here. I believe the shell material is just hard enough to offer quite a bit of resistance to turning in the normal sense. I also hope that you have some means of resharpening your tools after an encounter with the shell fragments since I believe the edges will be dulled rather quickly.
Maybe a high speed grinder would be of use on this stuff ... thinking out loud here!
Be sure to keep us posted and plenty of pictures. We all want to hear about the good AND the bad as well.
Maybe a high speed grinder would be of use on this stuff ... thinking out loud here!
Be sure to keep us posted and plenty of pictures. We all want to hear about the good AND the bad as well.
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
There isn't ROOM for all the bad we have created!!! That's what makes a learning curve.
Darley
Member
I don't want to sound negative but I think it will be not faisible ED talk about turning issue but I think your blank will not make to the leathe, just wait to drill it, of course this is only my personal opinion and don't think I want to stop you to try, just do it and put your experience here, that will be another knowledge for all of us.
texasfootball21
Member
If the shells are crushed and mixed in, won't it be like turning a rougher tru-stone blank? If you take your time and go slow I think you may be able to pull it off. As the others have said, please let us know how it goes.
Good luck.
Good luck.
CabinetMaker
Member
I would be concerned about what hitting a shell with a lathe tool might do to the tool, the shell or both. A thought. Trying gluing the shells to a tube and then casting around the tube. If the shells are thin enough, the should be completely covered by the casting and be safe for turning. Good Luck!
KiltedGunn
Local Chapter Leader
I think I would gather up some tiny shells and glue them to a painted tube (baby blue maybe?) and then cast that in clear resin.
Find somewhere nearby that sells saltwater aquarium stock and get a scoop of "dead" live sand...meaning it was live sand with live critters growing in it...you'll get a multitude of tiny shells from various species...usually lots of colors as well. I'll see what I can find small in my tank, if you'd like.
Next time I catch a couple of those (&@#^@% mantis shrimp hitchhiking on one of my live rocks, I'll have to think about casting them! As good a use as any for the little buggers!
Just a thought! :wink:
Find somewhere nearby that sells saltwater aquarium stock and get a scoop of "dead" live sand...meaning it was live sand with live critters growing in it...you'll get a multitude of tiny shells from various species...usually lots of colors as well. I'll see what I can find small in my tank, if you'd like.
Next time I catch a couple of those (&@#^@% mantis shrimp hitchhiking on one of my live rocks, I'll have to think about casting them! As good a use as any for the little buggers!
Just a thought! :wink:
DurocShark
Member
Bristleworm might be easier to cast.
Shell is amazingly hard! The best way I have found to turn it is to not turn it! If you are set on putting pieces of shell in aluminite or resin and casting it like that be ready for some problems. Wear eye protection and a mask for sure. The dust from shells can cause worse problems than a lot of woods. Who ever said it dulls tools. is totally correct. Then there is the problem of the shell actually being harder than the resin so it can pull out of hardened resin. The best way is to cover the shells with the resin and turn the resin. And there is the question about keeping the right side out of the shell pieces
Someone does sell crushed shell blanks. Are you sure you do not want to get one of those?
What I really like the best is to make faux shell with resin and pearl dust then the the 2 substances are the same. The pictures are in Show your Pens and the explanation is in casual conversation. I am not sure why I did that. I wasn't sure I was supposed to put photos in casual conversation I guess. Lastly I have found that heavy grit sand paper works better on really hard things better than tools.
I am sure I have totally confused you by now.
Alice
Someone does sell crushed shell blanks. Are you sure you do not want to get one of those?
What I really like the best is to make faux shell with resin and pearl dust then the the 2 substances are the same. The pictures are in Show your Pens and the explanation is in casual conversation. I am not sure why I did that. I wasn't sure I was supposed to put photos in casual conversation I guess. Lastly I have found that heavy grit sand paper works better on really hard things better than tools.
I am sure I have totally confused you by now.
Alice
DurocShark
Member
I think ya'll misunderstood me...
I'm talking shell powder. I just realized the impression is I was talking about chunks.
I'll be smashing the shell to small pieces and running it through a coffee grinder (crush grinder, not blade).
I've crushed shell for other projects in the past using this method. I expect small voids from turning that I will fill with CA at the finishing stage.
Does this make sense?
I'm talking shell powder. I just realized the impression is I was talking about chunks.
I'll be smashing the shell to small pieces and running it through a coffee grinder (crush grinder, not blade).
I've crushed shell for other projects in the past using this method. I expect small voids from turning that I will fill with CA at the finishing stage.
Does this make sense?
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
Don,
I have done that with stained glass.
It is totally possible, and the final product has NOTHING in common with stained glass. Looks like any other powder........ disappointing.
Maybe shells will be better.
Yes, turning was tough on my tools, but I have a sharpener.
I have done that with stained glass.
It is totally possible, and the final product has NOTHING in common with stained glass. Looks like any other powder........ disappointing.
Maybe shells will be better.
Yes, turning was tough on my tools, but I have a sharpener.
workinforwood
Member
I would go for a thick pen, like a cigar. Lay out the pieces face down on some wax paper. Roll the tube in 5 minute epoxy nice and thick, then roll it over the shells. Not only would that be safer, but probably would look better in the end. You'll guarantee yourself no problems with drilling or voids or of coure " YOU"LL SHOOT YOUR EYE OUT KID!!!":biggrin:
If you crushed the shells wouldn't the backs get crushed into the mix? Unless you have totally sanded all of the outside which is really hard to do. I tried it and gave up. You can buy shells that are already polished on the outside but they do cost more. It would be interesting. Let us see if you do try it! Alice
JohnU
Member
I can say with experience that you will not be happy with your results if you pour the crushed shells in pr and cast. I did that and still have five blanks that I need a jackhammer to shape them. They are like cement and will eat away at your lathe tools unless your set up to turn stone. I have been successuful with painting the tubes with an ivory pearl paint and then glueing the small shell pieces to the tubes and cast over them. this way you can see what you want to be seen and with little effort. Now, with that said, does anyone want a few cement blanks of shells?????
I guess i should have read all the posts before adding my two cents. Crushed might work, but id be interested to see what it looks like and if it it keeps any pearl or color. good luck!
I guess i should have read all the posts before adding my two cents. Crushed might work, but id be interested to see what it looks like and if it it keeps any pearl or color. good luck!
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dogcatcher
Member
Sea shells can also be very toxic. http://jewelryartists.tribe.net/thread/b9feae68-c819-4220-a434-72de4140e9ae
ldb2000
Member
If you are trying to get a pearlesent look I don't think your going to be happy with the results . I hope you have carbide tools or better , seashell is very very hard and you will dull your steel tools in the first couple of seconds .
Dai Sensei
Member
Rather than casting shells, you can also crush them, then just roll the painted brass sleeve covered in thick CA over the pile. Keep doing this until you have a decent covering, then infil the gaps with more CA.
Here's one I did in Black Lip Pearl shell without painting the sleeve. Be warned, this shell can be harder than your HSS chisels, so turning them down with 60 grit belt sander belts and working your way through the other grits is the way to go.
Here's one I did in Black Lip Pearl shell without painting the sleeve. Be warned, this shell can be harder than your HSS chisels, so turning them down with 60 grit belt sander belts and working your way through the other grits is the way to go.
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LarryDNJR
Member
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Pioneerpens
Member
That's what i did with some oyster shell as well. I don't see why crushed shell rolled in ca then cast will be a problem. Pretty much like any other items we put in resin. when you turn it down just be careful of the ends. That's where any chip out will usually occur first. good luck and lets see it when it's done.
I'll post a few more pics of some i've done later today.
I'll post a few more pics of some i've done later today.
atomic ray
Member
Couple of thoughts...
the crushed sea shells sounds interesting, but my main thought would be why? If the end result looks like other powders then the only real draw I could see is that the pen would have "real" seashells within it as a selling point.
that said...it sounds like fun...maybe add some sand with your initial slurry? Crushed sea shells, sand, resin mixed together...perhaps the sand would fill in some of your voids, act as ball bearings?
***********
The stained glass...with the solids in their color bases, let us say red/blue/gold, broken/chopped/etc. then recast with a dark gray or clear with silver...that may give you more of a stained glass effect?
Sounds interesting on all fronts to me :bananen_smilies104:
the crushed sea shells sounds interesting, but my main thought would be why? If the end result looks like other powders then the only real draw I could see is that the pen would have "real" seashells within it as a selling point.
that said...it sounds like fun...maybe add some sand with your initial slurry? Crushed sea shells, sand, resin mixed together...perhaps the sand would fill in some of your voids, act as ball bearings?
***********
The stained glass...with the solids in their color bases, let us say red/blue/gold, broken/chopped/etc. then recast with a dark gray or clear with silver...that may give you more of a stained glass effect?
Sounds interesting on all fronts to me :bananen_smilies104:
atomic ray
Member
This is a beautiful example and solution...insert "glass" chips for that stained glass look...very nice!
Cheers mate :RockOn:
PTownSubbie
Member
I don't recommend this. I did some sand in PR casting when I first started....Didn't turn out very well. It was like making cement and my saw blade hated cutting it!!
JohnU
Member
I've done this and can tell you those blanks will be as hard as cement. They drilled just fine but I spent an hour trying to turn it and destroyed my gouge and stl have a slightly rounded edged square blank. After that I started gluing them to tubes and clear casting over it. Unless your set up to turn stone I don't think you will enjoy this. Good luck.
PenMan1
Member
Don:
I have been casting seashell for some time. I use a diamond file and a Woodchuck with the #4 insert to cut the blank. Lathe at full speed and light pressure with the file. I get two pens (jrs) before changing woodchuck inserts.Any voids can be easily filled with CA. Then put a CA finish over the pen just as if it were a wood pen.
Be sure to use a mask and and good face shield.( I use a full face motorcycle helmet). The shells stink worse than any antler or any bone that I have ever turned. Additionally, the cut material comes off the lathe like little high speed rocks. They hurt when they hit you.
Additionally, I cover the pen tubes with vinyl scraps from my sign shop. I use a highly reflective "chrome" vinyl with a "prism" design. The sea shells sparkle as well as MOP. Good luck!
Oh, by the way, I use the tiny little seashells available at Michaels and Hobby Lobby
I have been casting seashell for some time. I use a diamond file and a Woodchuck with the #4 insert to cut the blank. Lathe at full speed and light pressure with the file. I get two pens (jrs) before changing woodchuck inserts.Any voids can be easily filled with CA. Then put a CA finish over the pen just as if it were a wood pen.
Be sure to use a mask and and good face shield.( I use a full face motorcycle helmet). The shells stink worse than any antler or any bone that I have ever turned. Additionally, the cut material comes off the lathe like little high speed rocks. They hurt when they hit you.
Additionally, I cover the pen tubes with vinyl scraps from my sign shop. I use a highly reflective "chrome" vinyl with a "prism" design. The sea shells sparkle as well as MOP. Good luck!
Oh, by the way, I use the tiny little seashells available at Michaels and Hobby Lobby
atomic ray
Member
This is why we talk about various subject! Share the wealth.
That is great to know...if I am looking to make cement blanks and destroy my tools...add sand lol :bananen_smilies051:
How about micro beads? No weight and would help fill those gaps if the caster was not going with the add crushed bits to barrel and then fill with CA.
Have any of y'all added a good amount of micro beads to create a series of fine holes? A texture thing, just curious.
Raymond
DurocShark
Member
Holy Thread Resurrection, Batman!
I had given up on this because it wasn't worth the effort in my small mind. Thanks though!
I had given up on this because it wasn't worth the effort in my small mind. Thanks though!
Before reading this I want to say I did not read the entire thread first. But here is how I finally did MOP so this is an answer to a question that was not asked! I am loosing it!
Also either this is a really old thread or someone put in some of my old posts for me Which is perfectly alright. I just thought I was going crazy!
Boy, that was a long time ago!
I originally made the abalone pen and then mother of pearl. I went through many different ways and finally came up with this.
If you want a black background what works best is two part black epoxy in a putty form. It needs to be at least 15 to 30 min drying time I am trying to find where I put mine and I could tell you the company.
Make a template of the brass tube with a piece of paper
Use a piece of double stick craft sheet the same size
remove one side of the dbl stick
put the dbl stick clear sheet on the brass tube
Then run the epoxy through a pasta maker, thin
Cut out the size of the epoxy with an exacto knife using your template.
Remove the second side of the clear sheet
Place the epoxy on the tube.
I use shell veneer which makes it much easier to get a level surface
Break up the shell and use a tweezers to place each piece on one at a time in a mosiac form. Yes it takes a while
roll the tube gently on a flat surface. trim ends with exacto
Let the epoxy dry completely
Use denatured alcohol to clean the surface before casting
the resin savers work the best and easiest.
OR I think some of the pen companies sell them now.
It has been several years since I made one. I hope I remembered everything.
I got the shell veneer on e-bay many years ago but there are some companies that sell it usually in Australia.
Alice
Also either this is a really old thread or someone put in some of my old posts for me Which is perfectly alright. I just thought I was going crazy!
Boy, that was a long time ago!
I originally made the abalone pen and then mother of pearl. I went through many different ways and finally came up with this.
If you want a black background what works best is two part black epoxy in a putty form. It needs to be at least 15 to 30 min drying time I am trying to find where I put mine and I could tell you the company.
Make a template of the brass tube with a piece of paper
Use a piece of double stick craft sheet the same size
remove one side of the dbl stick
put the dbl stick clear sheet on the brass tube
Then run the epoxy through a pasta maker, thin
Cut out the size of the epoxy with an exacto knife using your template.
Remove the second side of the clear sheet
Place the epoxy on the tube.
I use shell veneer which makes it much easier to get a level surface
Break up the shell and use a tweezers to place each piece on one at a time in a mosiac form. Yes it takes a while
roll the tube gently on a flat surface. trim ends with exacto
Let the epoxy dry completely
Use denatured alcohol to clean the surface before casting
the resin savers work the best and easiest.
OR I think some of the pen companies sell them now.
It has been several years since I made one. I hope I remembered everything.
I got the shell veneer on e-bay many years ago but there are some companies that sell it usually in Australia.
Alice
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PenMan1
Member
Alice:
I use that wonderful epoxy putty "hawked" by the late, great, Billy Mays. It comes in a tube with NO markings, but it is the best pre-mixed epoxy I have ever used.
Could your putty be the same? Available on late nite TV and CVS stores U.S.A. wide?
I LOVE Mighty Putty!
Hi Andy,
I am still looking. I had it in the same place for a couple of years and thought I had a better place to put it and now I cannot remember where the better place is!
It comes in two jars and I think I got it from an art place on the internet.
Alice
I am still looking. I had it in the same place for a couple of years and thought I had a better place to put it and now I cannot remember where the better place is!
It comes in two jars and I think I got it from an art place on the internet.
Alice