Clear epoxy resin

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jttheclockman

jttheclockman

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It has been talked about here a few times lately and that is Epoxy Resins turning yellow after some time weather from Uv or just natural. Now I have been using Liquid Diamonds for a couple years now and the pens I like to use it on are ones that have alot of hidden nooks and cranny where air bubbles can hang out such as watch part pens and others. Pens that I have made over a year ago in my eyes still look the same but it is so hard to tell because we turn down the material so thin and the yellow effect just hard to pick up. This type casting resin sticks to all surfaces and does not release when curing. That is another reason I like using it. I also use silmar41 and I know for fact that resin will release off objects at times. But yesterday I was looking in some supply areas I have my casting stuff I noticed a combo bottle of brand new LD which is at least a year old. I know it says on the bottles resists yellowing but I noticed the hardener part B had a yellow tint. Now I know for sure when I bought it they were both clear liquids like water. They were stored in a cabinet with no light source and cool temps.

So this brings me to this question. Has anyone tried and used an epoxy resin that does not turn yellow for sure. I do not want to hear so and so suppose to stay clear. I need facts. Have you personally seen such an animal and what is the name and the source to get. Now I am looking for a casting resin and not a surface coating resin such as bar top resins or fiberglass resins. We all know what casting resins are because they are used in amounts more than coatings. Thanks ahead of time for replys.
 
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It's been my experience that all the epoxy resins I've used yellowed. I've been told from one manufacturer that moisture in uncurled resin will cause yellowing as well. I've used Liquid Diamonds, Royal Palm and West Systems. I'm in the process of trying Alumilites Plus Epoxy now so too early to tell. My question to you is that you say "It Sticks to Everything". It is a very general use type of resin. The Alumilite Clear Slow is a better resin, in my opinion, you just need to know a few basics. The main one is it doesn't like CA. I've only had one issue with it yellowing. It happened twice with the same pen my son keeps in his cars console. There's no sunlight but subject to all the temperature changes and extremes.
 
I have done extensive composites work in my lifetime (carbon fiber, fiberglass) and I have yet to use a resin that did not have some form of discolorization from age/exposure.

For pens I have used liquid diamonds and alumilite but I have not been doing pens long enough to speak on their ability to resist yellowing.

As far as I know, it is just the nature of resins.
 
I think the Alumilite Clear and the various epoxy resins all have their place and uses in the casting world.

In the past I had some epoxy that one of the bottles developed a yellow tint but upon mixing the epoxy it cleared up. Plus I was dying it anyway so I wasn't concerned with the yellowing effect. There did not seem to be any negatives concerning doing this honestly. The strengh and cure did not appear to have any issues from the tinted bottle.

ALL epoxies will yellow eventually, it is unavoidable and the natural effect of that chemical. For that reason I will not use epoxy on anything that is clear cast. The advantage of epoxy is the long working time you get from it. You can really play with the colorants in epoxy and get some great looks.

Alumilite Clear and Clear Slow are better for casting clear items because it doesn't have that yellowing effect. Though biggest drawback of Alumilite is the limited work time compared to epoxies.
 
I do think that the yellowing of epoxy is a bit overblown for pens. We deal with such thin amounts in the finished product it would only be noticed upon scrutinization over a pure white.
in the world of plastics, acrylic is the gold standard for a non yellowing clear. All of the polys will yellow.
there are epoxies that claim to be non yellowing. Art Resin has been discussed here but appeared to be problematic for fabrication. If one is discovered to be truly non-yellowing and workable I would love to know, but factual information will be hard to find or a lot of time will need to be expended to establish.
 
PatrickR said:
I do think that the yellowing of epoxy is a bit overblown for pens. We deal with such thin amounts in the finished product it would only be noticed upon scrutinization over a pure white.
in the world of plastics, acrylic is the gold standard for a non yellowing clear. All of the polys will yellow.
there are epoxies that claim to be non yellowing. Art Resin has been discussed here but appeared to be problematic for fabrication. If one is discovered to be truly non-yellowing and workable I would love to know, but factual information will be hard to find or a lot of time will need to be expended to establish.
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Patric you are saying basically what I have found and so far no one has answered my question. If this be true about all resins than I will stick with LD just because of the fact it does stick to everything and the watery effect it has to get into all nooks and crannys is another plus. As I said I have been using Silmar for a very long time and yes I like it for what it does but to me it is not the right resin for watch parts and other intricate castings. Just my opinion. I have read a little bit about Art Resin in that it was being designed just for the purpose of not yellowing but have not followed up with it. I need and like the open time with the epoxy resins in that it gives ample time for bubbles to dissipate which makes it such a clear and easy to use resin. Even with silmar I have had crazing happen when cast and I can not afford to ruin blanks because of the chance it could happen and thus the reason I stay away from such intricate blanks. Yes I use a pressure pot on all my castings. Today more and more products are coming to market and maybe they have not had the shelf life data behind them but maybe someone has done enough testing is what I am hoping. I will keep watching this thread. Thanks.
 
I looked at the Art Resin site and they claim "unparalleled UV protection". I have never seen a resin claim anything like, guaranteed to never yellow. That leads me to believe that they all will to some extent. The question then becomes, will it matter?
 
PatrickR said:
I looked at the Art Resin site and they claim "unparalleled UV protection". I have never seen a resin claim anything like, guaranteed to never yellow. That leads me to believe that they all will to some extent. The question then becomes, will it matter?
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Yes it is a question. But everyday new things hit the market and was hoping someone may have run into something. There are many members here that do not participate much but sometimes a simple thing can trigger a response so thought I would throw it out there.
 
Kenny Durrant said:
The Alumilite Clear Slow is a better resin, in my opinion, you just need to know a few basics. The main one is it doesn't like CA.
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Kenny, can you explain this statement a little? Does CA not bond with Clear Slow? I am asking because I have had a couple of segmented pens I made where I used CA to glue the components together, and they kept coming apart during turning (the parts were made with Alumilite Clear Slow). I just thought I was screwing up. Thanks.
 
When I mentioned CA and Clear Slow I was talking about when using CA to glue parts to a tube then casting the clear over it. I've always had separation between the glue and CA. If using CA to glue cured Clear Slow to something else it may be heat while drilling, turning or sanding causing the glue to soften and turn loose. That's the case with any glues. I hope this helps.
 
I had just thrown these blanks away, all part of an old experiment, so I dug them out of the trash. All within a month of the same age and done, I believe, 4 years ago, all stored in the same container in my shop. The odd shape on the left is Alumilite Clear (not cast under pressure). The somewhat turned piece is Silmar 41 from some trials Ernie Borraga and I were doing on varying the MEKP content. The other 3 are all liquid diamonds from this experiment LD Ratio which I find very interesting when you see the 1.7:1 mix ratio is notably more clear than the higher ratios.
981F6DA1-ECAB-46C4-8E98-748255326651.jpeg
 
MRDucks2 said:
I had just thrown these blanks away, all part of an old experiment, so I dug them out of the trash. All within a month of the same age and done, I believe, 4 years ago, all stored in the same container in my shop. The odd shape on the left is Alumilite Clear (not cast under pressure). The somewhat turned piece is Silmar 41 from some trials Ernie Borraga and I were doing on varying the MEKP content. The other 3 are all liquid diamonds from this experiment LD Ratio which I find very interesting when you see the 1.7:1 mix ratio is notably more clear than the higher ratios.
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I like the comparison and it tells a story. Could you explain the different ratio mixes? I have always used 2 to 1 mix because that is what is called for. Why did you try to use other mixes? Does it effect the hardness of the blank? What was your end goal of doing that? Thanks.
 
That was my first use of Liquid Diamonds and, being used to urethane, I was disappointed in the long cure time. For my shop and season it was a full 7 days.

I found a paper from Australia, as I recall where a guy changed the ratio and ended up with faster cure. That led me down the same path in search of a faster, harder cure. It worked and is documented at the link.

Never expected a color shift, though.
 
MRDucks2 said:
That was my first use of Liquid Diamonds and, being used to urethane, I was disappointed in the long cure time. For my shop and season it was a full 7 days.

I found a paper from Australia, as I recall where a guy changed the ratio and ended up with faster cure. That led me down the same path in search of a faster, harder cure. It worked and is documented at the link.

Never expected a color shift, though.
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You got my interest here. First have to say I did not see your link in the above reply but did open it and read. A couple questions first is you used more hardener than resin?? Is that the case? I find that my hardener turns yellow as opposed to the resin when sitting alone. If you used more hardener than that explains the harder surface. I do not care about open time after poured. I usually turn a blank 24 hours after I poured and put in pot. I like the clear look of the first one. Second question is do you have a link to that paper you refer to? I would be interested in reading. Third question is did you get a chance to turn these experiments and if you did was there a difference in the turnings and which felt better? Thanks.
 
Not ignoring you, John, just took me a while to find the paper I referred to in the link.

1-basic answer is yes, but in my case I reduced the resin vs actually increasing hardener. Not sure why I chose that approach.

2-I did not have a copy but finally found it online, click the blue lettered link: Aldax Liquid Diamonds Paper

3-I don't think I turned any to see if there was a difference but I did cast the rest of the LD harder than recommended. As I recall, it approached Alumilite Clear where as my 2:1 pours were always a softer/clingy feel to me. Since I dug the blanks out of the trash I will turn them tomorrow and see.
 
Thanks Mike. That is the same link you supplied up above but from that I will track down the info being I have names. I also bookmarked this thread because I will want to try something similar because I still like the properties of LD as opposed to Silmar for certain blanks. After I reread your post I did notice it was the resin you were cutting back on which makes sense for strength. Just surprised at the color difference. I need to really get back into the shop. I miss working on things like this. Thanks again.
 
Well, quite the surprise here. So much so I went back and checked my old post and photos twice. I turned all three blanks using a skew to knock off the corners, round, scrape and jab to see what happened. The clearer blank marked 1.7 for a 1.7:1 resin to hardener mix that turned harder faster in the original experiment was unturnable. It turned similar to some of my wife's craft epoxy. It was soft enough that I could not keep it from bowing at 2000rpm, the same speed I turned them all at. Not what I expected to report and makes me want to run the experiment again.
EFCAD777-2BBA-4086-8EDE-EC3BE57A4986.jpeg

On the plus side, I did an "air drop" between my iPhone 8 and my iPad for the first time. Went to send the photo to myself by email and the air drop thing lit up so I touched and it was there. Pretty cool.
 
all resins yellow over time according to this video and that's something the manufacturers won't tell you. even the ones that say they've got formulations designed specifically to combat yellowing-it only delays the inevitable. i'd also say that many if not all pigments will also change color and i've noticed this from personal use. the pic is of a teak slat bench i made 2 yrs ago with epoxy inlays. i used art resin epoxy specifically because of the fact that it was specifically designed to inhibit yellowing and i used either 3m or West Systems paste epoxy. the orange has definitely dulled over time but the white and brown still look fine and this bench was never kept in direct sunlight so i think it's safe to say all epoxies and pigments will change as time goes on. if i were to do this bench again i'd use acrylic sheet for the concentric circles and never have to worry about fading or color change.
IMG-0185.jpg
 
jcjc said:
all resins yellow over time according to this video and that's something the manufacturers won't tell you. even the ones that say they've got formulations designed specifically to combat yellowing-it only delays the inevitable. i'd also say that many if not all pigments will also change color and i've noticed this from personal use. the pic is of a teak slat bench i made 2 yrs ago with epoxy inlays. i used art resin epoxy specifically because of the fact that it was specifically designed to inhibit yellowing and i used either 3m or West Systems paste epoxy. the orange has definitely dulled over time but the white and brown still look fine and this bench was never kept in direct sunlight so i think it's safe to say all epoxies and pigments will change as time goes on. if i were to do this bench again i'd use acrylic sheet for the concentric circles and never have to worry about fading or color change.
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JC where have you been? Have not seen your work here for awhile. The video shows great examples of yellowing in all resins and you have the proof. Nice projects in there as well. You basically are saying what I have found also that being what we do in pens, the layer is so thin you hardly notice the change in color. If you tint the resin no matter what type you again just do not see it. It is the larger objects that are clear is where you notice the most. I will continue to use epoxy resin on my watch part pens for the fact of the colored background takes away the yellowing effect and also easier to use when dealing with that type of medium.


If you ever do come across a resin that truely does not yellow be sure to let us all know. Seems you dabble in resins quite abit. Thanks for the video. I do remember that table.
 
I just received an email from Berea today with a link to this stuff:

www.bereahardwoods.com

The Berea Hardwoods Casting Resin 128 fl oz kit

Check out the deal on The Berea Hardwoods Casting Resin 128 fl oz kit at Pen Kit Making Supplies Berea HardWoods
www.bereahardwoods.com

Has anyone ever used it? Claims non-yellowing...but based on the video shared a couple posts up, it makes me wonder...
 
jttheclockman said:
JC where have you been? Have not seen your work here for awhile. The video shows great examples of yellowing in all resins and you have the proof. Nice projects in there as well. You basically are saying what I have found also that being what we do in pens, the layer is so thin you hardly notice the change in color. If you tint the resin no matter what type you again just do not see it. It is the larger objects that are clear is where you notice the most. I will continue to use epoxy resin on my watch part pens for the fact of the colored background takes away the yellowing effect and also easier to use when dealing with that type of medium.


If you ever do come across a resin that truely does not yellow be sure to let us all know. Seems you dabble in resins quite abit. Thanks for the video. I do remember that table.
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the video's not mine, i just ran across it on youtube and i was immediately intrigued because it deals with something i was trying to find an answer to when i first got into epoxy work. over time i figured it out myself and is the same conclusion as shown in the vid. because of that, i've lessened my use of epoxys for decorative work and have done inlays with acrylic sheet. having a handheld cnc machine makes it pretty easy to incrementally enlarge the void so that the acrylic sheet fits perfectly.
 
Kenny Durrant said:
When I mentioned CA and Clear Slow I was talking about when using CA to glue parts to a tube then casting the clear over it. I've always had separation between the glue and CA. If using CA to glue cured Clear Slow to something else it may be heat while drilling, turning or sanding causing the glue to soften and turn loose. That's the case with any glues. I hope this helps.
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Just FYI I recently made a watch parts blank and used CA to adhere the gears to the tube before casting in clear slow. It went off without a hitch so I am unsure if something has changed with the brand of CA or formula of Alumilite, or perhaps I was just lucky.

DC-SR-4.jpg


jttheclockman said:
Patric you are saying basically what I have found and so far no one has answered my question. *snip*
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I thought that I had answered it but let me be more clear. I have worked with resin for the past 20 years and during that time I have not found a single resin which did not yellow with age and/or exposure. Regardless of any claims made by manufacturers, to my knowledge there is currently no such thing as a resin which does not yellow. Some of them may yellow *less* than other formulas but they all do it to varying degrees.
 
Michael now it may seem like I'm backpedaling about my original comment but for the most part Alumilite clear Slow doesn't do well together. If it's small spots like gluing watch parts or something similar you can get by with it. I've tried casting labels that were sealed with CA and they failed. I don't know where the point is that you can or can't get by with it so I don't mix the two. Clear Elmers and the Alumilite Amazing Sealer work great so that's what I use if it's a small spot or sealing the whole tube. First thing is to do what works best for you! If you have trouble down the road then you might consider other factors. About the Amazing sealer it dries slow enough to adjust the pieces but fast enough so you not trying to hold them in place a long time. The blank look great also.
 
Kenny Durrant said:
Michael now it may seem like I'm backpedaling about my original comment but for the most part Alumilite clear Slow doesn't do well together. If it's small spots like gluing watch parts or something similar you can get by with it. I've tried casting labels that were sealed with CA and they failed. I don't know where the point is that you can or can't get by with it so I don't mix the two. Clear Elmers and the Alumilite Amazing Sealer work great so that's what I use if it's a small spot or sealing the whole tube. First thing is to do what works best for you! If you have trouble down the road then you might consider other factors. About the Amazing sealer it dries slow enough to adjust the pieces but fast enough so you not trying to hold them in place a long time. The blank look great also.
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Not backpedaling at all, and I hope you did not take my comment as antagonistic. I am genuinely curious if different CA glues react differently with it or if I was just flat out lucky. The blank I posted above was my first attempt at watch parts and so I used CA strictly because it never occurred to me that there could be a reaction/problem with the Alumilite.

I am not sure if it makes a difference but I used thick CA so that I had a long working time to get things into place. I would put a few pieces on the tube all facing in the same orientation and then walk away for a few hours or even days sometimes. The blank was just something that I worked on when I walked by it and probably took 2 weeks in total so there was extended cure times and no accelerator used.

Now knowing that you encountered an issue I wont risk it on the next one and use an alternative to CA instead such as that amazing sealer you mentioned.
 
I think the CA doesn't bond well with the urethane resins. Since it's a small spot in the middle of the tube there's enough material around the area to hold it in place. You might incur a problem if there's flexing due to pressing the pen together or another reason it might want to separate. I believe there are several people that use CA for that but I also think there's a few that figure why take a chance. Don't worry there wasn't any thing interpreted by you post. Just two people voicing opinions and outcomes
 
I think I recall someone mentioning they felt it may be due to off-gassing of the CA. I believe they noticed parts they attached previously and parts they attached prior to casting reacting differently and more recent parts more likely to cause a haze. The parts attached earlier in the week had no issues.

Not sure if it holds up or not in practice. I have not headed down this path yet but do try and pay attention to what others have learned.
 
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