Clear Casting ?'s

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BassBlaster

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
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102
Location
Grove City, OH
Okay, I just jumped head first into casting. I have never cast a single thing before and my first attempt will be snakeskins!! I know some will say to cast solid blanks before attempting something like snakeskins but thats just not how I roll. I'm one to just jump in and then learn from failing. However, I have read everything I can find on casting snakes and watched every video I can find and with a little more help, I dont see why I cant succeed at this.

I have ordered everything I need. Molds are on the way, resin is on the way. Snakeskins are allready prepped and ready to be glued to the tubes. I have some tubes already painted and ready to go. I chose to go the pressureless and vacuumless route and bought an ultrasonic cleaner. Just waiting for everything to arrive.

A few questions.

I see the tubes are to be painted with a flat camo type of paint in black or green. This first attempt will be western diamond back so I went with Krylon camo black. The can says it cures in 7 days. The paint was actually dry to the touch in a few minutes but how long should I wait to glue the skins? This first batch I will wait the full 7 days because I'm still waiting for other supplies to arrive but for the future, is it neccissary to wait 7 days? I'm concerned about the paint releasing gases as it cures but I dont know anyting about paint curing. Also, after I glue the skins, how long should I allow the CA to cure before casting?

Next I read that the skins should be painted with polyresin to expell air within the skin before casting. I'm assuming this is just the resin itself without the catalyst added?

For you guys that use the ultrasonic cleaner. How long do you "zap" the resin and about what temperature do you try to achieve? I have the HF cleaner and it has a heating function but no thermostat so I guess I'll use a meat thermometer or something for temp control.

Where do I find a dental pick? Is this something I can pick up at the local drug store or something that needs to be ordered from a medical supply center?

I know alot of questions but I know the guys here are helpful and like to share thier knowledge so thanks ahead of time. Sorry if these questions have been addressed in the articles in the library. Its possible that I have missed a couple things but I have read everything I can find multiple times and dont remember seeing these specific questions.
 
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BassBlaster said:
Okay, I just jumped head first into casting. I have never cast a single thing before and my first attempt will be snakeskins!! I know some will say to cast solid blanks before attempting something like snakeskins but thats just not how I roll. I'm one to just jump in and then learn from failing. However, I have read everything I can find on casting snakes and watched every video I can find and with a little more help, I dont see why I cant succeed at this.

you are absolutely right! just go for it and learn along the way

I have ordered everything I need. Molds are on the way, resin is on the way. Snakeskins are allready prepped and ready to be glued to the tubes. I have some tubes already painted and ready to go. I chose to go the pressureless and vacuumless route and bought an ultrasonic cleaner. Just waiting for everything to arrive.

A few questions.

I see the tubes are to be painted with a flat camo type of paint in black or green. This first attempt will be western diamond back so I went with Krylon camo black. The can says it cures in 7 days. The paint was actually dry to the touch in a few minutes but how long should I wait to glue the skins? This first batch I will wait the full 7 days because I'm still waiting for other supplies to arrive but for the future, is it neccissary to wait 7 days?

An alternative to waiting that long is to powdercoat your tubes which would be ready to use in an hour or a little less. Otherwise, i would say yes, let them fully cure or you could potentially have some problems.

I'm concerned about the paint releasing gases as it cures but I dont know anyting about paint curing. Also, after I glue the skins, how long should I allow the CA to cure before casting?

I typically give it 2 days before casting

Next I read that the skins should be painted with polyresin to expell air within the skin before casting. I'm assuming this is just the resin itself without the catalyst added?

I dont do this method, to me it is a waste of time if you have already applied a coat of CA to the skin. IMO

For you guys that use the ultrasonic cleaner. How long do you "zap" the resin and about what temperature do you try to achieve? I have the HF cleaner and it has a heating function but no thermostat so I guess I'll use a meat thermometer or something for temp control.

I zap it for one (480 cycle)and one (280 cycle) with the temp turned on and it averages around 150 degress, so you wont need a thermometer. Get it nice and hot first though, that it is a consistent time in the warm bath!:biggrin:

Where do I find a dental pick? Is this something I can pick up at the local drug store or something that needs to be ordered from a medical supply center?

you can get these any harbor freight for a couple of bucks

I know alot of questions but I know the guys here are helpful and like to share thier knowledge so thanks ahead of time. Sorry if these questions have been addressed in the articles in the library. Its possible that I have missed a couple things but I have read everything I can find multiple times and dont remember seeing these specific questions.
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Hope this helps you a bit
 
seamus7227 said:
BassBlaster said:
Okay, I just jumped head first into casting. I have never cast a single thing before and my first attempt will be snakeskins!! I know some will say to cast solid blanks before attempting something like snakeskins but thats just not how I roll. I'm one to just jump in and then learn from failing. However, I have read everything I can find on casting snakes and watched every video I can find and with a little more help, I dont see why I cant succeed at this.

you are absolutely right! just go for it and learn along the way

I have ordered everything I need. Molds are on the way, resin is on the way. Snakeskins are allready prepped and ready to be glued to the tubes. I have some tubes already painted and ready to go. I chose to go the pressureless and vacuumless route and bought an ultrasonic cleaner. Just waiting for everything to arrive.

A few questions.

I see the tubes are to be painted with a flat camo type of paint in black or green. This first attempt will be western diamond back so I went with Krylon camo black. The can says it cures in 7 days. The paint was actually dry to the touch in a few minutes but how long should I wait to glue the skins? This first batch I will wait the full 7 days because I'm still waiting for other supplies to arrive but for the future, is it neccissary to wait 7 days?

An alternative to waiting that long is to powdercoat your tubes which would be ready to use in an hour or a little less. Otherwise, i would say yes, let them fully cure or you could potentially have some problems.

I'm concerned about the paint releasing gases as it cures but I dont know anyting about paint curing. Also, after I glue the skins, how long should I allow the CA to cure before casting?

I typically give it 2 days before casting

Next I read that the skins should be painted with polyresin to expell air within the skin before casting. I'm assuming this is just the resin itself without the catalyst added?

I dont do this method, to me it is a waste of time if you have already applied a coat of CA to the skin. IMO

For you guys that use the ultrasonic cleaner. How long do you "zap" the resin and about what temperature do you try to achieve? I have the HF cleaner and it has a heating function but no thermostat so I guess I'll use a meat thermometer or something for temp control.

I zap it for one (480 cycle)and one (280 cycle) with the temp turned on and it averages around 150 degress, so you wont need a thermometer. Get it nice and hot first though, that it is a consistent time in the warm bath!:biggrin:

Where do I find a dental pick? Is this something I can pick up at the local drug store or something that needs to be ordered from a medical supply center?

you can get these any harbor freight for a couple of bucks

I know alot of questions but I know the guys here are helpful and like to share thier knowledge so thanks ahead of time. Sorry if these questions have been addressed in the articles in the library. Its possible that I have missed a couple things but I have read everything I can find multiple times and dont remember seeing these specific questions.
Click to expand...

Hope this helps you a bit
Click to expand...

Thanks, that helps alot!!

I have considered buying a small powder coating set up. I can see where that would be usefull for other pen making projects as well. I have a compressor and a suitable oven so it really wouldnt take that much more to get into that.


As for coating the skin in resin prior to casting, that particular tutorial didnt metion anything about coating the skin with CA. I see that people have different opinions about using CA on the outside of the skin prior to casting. I guess I'll have to try it both ways and decide whats better for me.

Dang it, I wast just at HF yesterday and it never crossed my mind to look for a dental pick there.

I just thought of a couple more questions.

When prepping the skins, how can you tell if you have all the scales off? Those little buggers are hard to see. I used an exacto knife like I saw in your videos and then switched to a stiff bristled nylon brush which seemed to work really well but its hard to see if all of them came off or not.

Also, the resin I ordered is Silmar 41. I assume it comes with instructions but I noticed people use different amounts of catalysts. What variables determine how much catalyst to use? I guess this is where previous casting experience could help, lol.
 
BassBlaster said:
a suitable oven
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Do Not! Do Not! under any circumstances use the cooking oven!! As no matter how careful you are you will be buying a new stove. More than one person has found out the hard and expensive way! The smell never seems to leave.
:clown:
 
Lol. I wouldnt do that. The wife would kill me!!

We recieved a really nice toaster oven as a wedding gift that has never been taken out of the box after 13 years so that is my "suitable oven".
 
I use 3 drops of catalyst per ounce. Some use 4. Your results will vary from mine or anyone else's, its just how it goes. As far as making sure all the scales are removed, if in doubt, use your air compressor to blow them off, they generally have a certain look to them, once you do it for awhile, you will learn to recognize them easier.
 
BassBlaster said:
... I have read everything I can find on casting snakes ...
If you read my original article then understand it needs to be updated. I no longer use pressure or vacuum and cast in different molds.


A few questions.

I see the tubes are to be painted with a flat camo type of paint in black or green. This first attempt will be western diamond back so I went with Krylon camo black. Painting the tubes is not necessary for success. Painting the tubes keeps the brass from showing through the thin places on the skin. I choose to use the flat green or black. You may like other colors better.


The paint was actually dry to touch in a few minutes but how long should I wait to glue the skins?I let the paint dry/cure for a day or two with no problems. But, as Seamus suggested, powdercoating is a possibility with no wait time....well, just long enough for the tube to cool after time in the oven.

Also, after I glue the skins, how long should I allow the CA to cure before casting?For me, another 24 hours/

Next I read that the skins should be painted with polyresin to expell air within the skin before casting. I'm assuming this is just the resin itself without the catalyst added?I have also stopped doing this and now coat the skins with a layer of CA...another 24 hour wait after this.

For you guys that use the ultrasonic cleaner. How long do you "zap" the resin and about what temperature do you try to achieve? I have the HF cleaner and it has a heating function but no thermostat so I guess I'll use a meat thermometer or something for temp control.Use hot tap water and turn on the heater. Mine has no thermostat...just off and on. I run two 480 sec cycles. My cleaner is from Harbor Freight.
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Good luck and
Do a good turn daily!
Don
 
BassBlaster said:
When prepping the skins, how can you tell if you have all the scales off? Those little buggers are hard to see. I used an exacto knife like I saw in your videos and then switched to a stiff bristled nylon brush which seemed to work really well but its hard to see if all of them came off or not.
Click to expand...

I can help with one ... Seamus & Don gave you good info ...

For removing scales I found a simple pencil eraser works best. You can use a large hand held for getting most. Then a smaller pencil to get those pesky ones.

Skins can be tricky the way the skin was tanned can effect your results. I give the skin a good wipe with denatured alcohol. Every one is going to have a different answer.

Good Luck
 
As far a clear casting, I posted a tutorial on vibration casting a while ago. Not sure if it made it to the library, but its here somewhers, I can't dig it up right now, but I can later.
 
Thank you guys so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I'm real excited to get to casting, cant wait for everything to get here.

Okay, new question, since everyone agrees now that the skin should be coated with CA prior to casting, whats the best way to go about that? Obviously, theres not a smooth surface like a freshly sanded pen barrel so the lathe and paper towel trick isnt gonna work.

If anyone else has anything to add to this conversation, I'd love to hear it. I'm soaking it all in!!
 
How to hold the blank? ...any way you can. I actually put the tube with skin glued on between a live center and dead center and use a paper towel pad to apply the CA glue. I als stick one of the rubber plugs into one end and hold it and apply the CA with my finger ... wearing a nitrile glove, of course. Be creative and you can figure out a way to hold the tube while applying the CA.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

BassBlaster said:
Thank you guys so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I'm real excited to get to casting, cant wait for everything to get here.

Okay, new question, since everyone agrees now that the skin should be coated with CA prior to casting, whats the best way to go about that? Obviously, theres not a smooth surface like a freshly sanded pen barrel so the lathe and paper towel trick isnt gonna work.

If anyone else has anything to add to this conversation, I'd love to hear it. I'm soaking it all in!!
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the quick reply and thank you again to everyone that replied. I'll have blanks to post soon, hopefully successfull ones on finished pens!!
 
What does heating the pr with ultrasonic cleaner help you achieve? I just bought one off of another member to use in cleaning the threads on threaded acrylics, but would be interested in using it for my pr casting as well. A little information would be greatly greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
Bigj51 said:
What does heating the pr with ultrasonic cleaner help you achieve? I just bought one off of another member to use in cleaning the threads on threaded acrylics, but would be interested in using it for my pr casting as well. A little information would be greatly greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Heating the PR makes it thinner so its easier for the bubbles to move or rise rather than being trapped. The ultrasonic vibrations help to vibrate them to the top. It basically makes casting bubble free possible without vacuum or pressure.
 
I know several who cast with no ultrasonic cleaner, no heated resin, no pressure, and no vacuum. They use the poly resin straight from the can and they have excellent results. One technique is to pour in multiple layers.

Pour a layer on the bottom, say for example, 1/3 full and wait. Some wait until the next day and others wait until the poly resin has started to jell. If using a block mold then the tube will be placed on the layer, plugged with weights inside to keep the tube from floating, and the next 1/3 is poured. Then, the last layer is poured. The thinner layers seem to allow air to escape easier not having as far to travel.

There are several ways to tackle clear casting with tubes in the blank. Have fun.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
 
I have a question. I don't want to interfere with BassBlasters thread but I thought it might help us both. Do you use thin or med. ca and what is the purpose of the glue. Is it to help the pr bond or to help fill voids in the skin to reduce the air. Thanks.
 
I kinda wish I was trying to cast snakeskins because trying to cast paintings has me finding about every way things can go wrong. I can't use dental picks because you risk scratching the painting. Heating the resin in the jewelry cleaner seems to give a higher chance the paint will crinkle, separate, or bleed and it reduces the time you have to deal with bubbles and it takes a heck of a long time to run the vibration cycles.

I think I have the bubble issued solved with a technique that is very fast and I like the results. I bought one of Curtis' vacuum chambers and I mix the resin then put the cup in the chamber and draw the air out of it then release the vacuum. I end up with a crystal clear cup of resin in like 60 seconds and it hasn't been heated. Then I just pour carefully and after my first couple tries I haven't seen any air bubbles to deal with.

I'm still up in the air on whether to cover the painting with anything. I've done a couple that were not coated and they look perfect then I do a couple more and the paint does weird things. Then I try putting a clear coat of paint on them and they appeared ok at first but after squaring and turning them down a little they seem to show separation between the PR and the clear coat paint in some areas.

To be honest it's kinda driven me crazy trying to get it right and my wife is about to refuse to paint anything else if I don't improve the success rate.
 
Kenny Durrant said:
I have a question. I don't want to interfere with BassBlasters thread but I thought it might help us both. Do you use thin or med. ca and what is the purpose of the glue. Is it to help the pr bond or to help fill voids in the skin to reduce the air. Thanks.
Click to expand...
No worries about interfering. This is all completely new to me so anything anyone may want to ask can only help me.
 
Gilrock said:
I kinda wish I was trying to cast snakeskins because trying to cast paintings has me finding about every way things can go wrong.Happens with snake skins also. Just when things are working then they aren't.


I can't use dental picks because you risk scratching the painting. Heating the resin in the jewelry cleaner seems to give a higher chance the paint will crinkle, separate, or bleed and it reduces the time you have to deal with bubbles and it takes a heck of a long time to run the vibration cycles.Only put raw resin into the ultrasonic cleaner...no catalyst added until after the cleaner cycle. The curing resin will get hotter than the jewelery cleaner...unless yours gets hotter than the one I use.

I think I have the bubble issued solved with a technique that is very fast and I like the results. I bought one of Curtis' vacuum chambers and I mix the resin then put the cup in the chamber and draw the air out of it then release the vacuum. I end up with a crystal clear cup of resin in like 60 seconds and it hasn't been heated. Then I just pour carefully and after my first couple tries I haven't seen any air bubbles to deal with.If this is working for you continue doing it.

I'm still up in the air on whether to cover the painting with anything. I've done a couple that were not coated and they look perfect then I do a couple more and the paint does weird things. Then I try putting a clear coat of paint on them and they appeared ok at first but after squaring and turning them down a little they seem to show separation between the PR and the clear coat paint in some areas.Maybe you should change the type of paint you are using. I know two who paint scenes on tubes with acrylic paint then cast and it works just fine. Neither heats their resin and one casts in layers.

To be honest it's kinda driven me crazy trying to get it right and my wife is about to refuse to paint anything else if I don't improve the success rate.Its too bad this is not an exact science. Trial and error, and at times it seems more error, will find the way that works for you. Success will come and hopefully continue.​
Click to expand...


Do a good turn daily!
Don

​
 
Thanks for letting us jump on your thread. I don't know if it will help but I've cast a lot of different things and all at once I had trouble with the paint wrinkling on the tubes. I have a friend that works in the paint industry and he said it looked like the paint was lifting off the tube. I guess the paint co. changed something or pr co. so I had to spray a primer on the tube first. It helped but I still have trouble from time to time. I use the white tubes from woodcraft now and the pr or acetone doesn't affect it. I would try just smearing paint on the tube and casting until I perfrcted it before making the wife mad. No use making life at home just as frustrating as the casting.
 
I would make two suggestions: (1) Use vacuum on non-catalyzed resin then mix in the MEKP and (2) don't pull more than 27" of hg because the styrene solvent will be removed at 28". When I use vacuum on polyresin I stop the vacuum at 25" or 26" just to be sure (in case of gauge error).

Do a good turn daily!
Don
Gilrock said:
I bought one of Curtis' vacuum chambers and I mix the resin then put the cup in the chamber and draw the air out of it then release the vacuum.
Click to expand...
 
Yeah I got the 2 stage 3 CFM pump from Harbor Freight and it only seems to pull about 26.5" but granted I haven't let it just sit there for that long. I've tried using vacuum before I added the MEKP but mixing in the MEKP seems to be the step where I produce the most bubbles. Oh yeah and when I did use the jewelry cleaner I wasn't mixing in the MEKP until after it was heated up. Of course wouldn't you know the very first cast of a painted tube I ever did I didn't do anything but mix and pour and it came out good. I did just check one of her paint containers and it looks like Acrylic paint. She says she roughs up the tube and paints a base coat color first.

The funny thing is a couple nights ago I said give me one that you don't care about and of course that casted perfect. I'm now trying to pay attention to the tube at every step because I might have these defects popping up later in the process like squaring the ends and turning them round. One set I thought was fine and then I tried to heat it up for 20 minutes because it was tacky and that's when it seemed like it seperated from the clear coat. Now I'm just gonna wait 2 days and forget trying to speed anything up.
 
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