Celtic Knots - Most pleasing cut angles?

[jrista]

Continuing my foray into making Celtic Knot blanks. I've had a couple of mishaps so far. I started out using CA glue, as for these experiments I wanted things to go faster. Well, that may have been a mistake, as I occasionally have "instacure" glue cure times. Same glue, that normally gives me 10+ seconds of working time...sometimes it seems to cure the moment I touch two pieces of wood together (no accelerator.) I am not sure if its wood dust, or moisture (shouldn't be, this is really very dry wood and veneer and such). So I've ended up with some crooked blanks, which are effectively junk now.

My first attempts were with 60 and 45 degree cuts, and I particularly do not like the 60 degree. So now I am wondering what most people find optimal for the angle of the cuts, for a good looking, more knot like result? The 45 degree cuts even seem...not quite optimal? On the flip side, I am wondering if I try shallower angle cuts, say 30 or 22.5 degree, will I run into other problems getting the loops to overlay with each other properly? I am also working with an incorrect kerf at the moment as well, so trying to avoid too much waste here...

What is your favorite Celtic Knot cut angle?

Thank you so much!

 

[SabertoothBunny]

I primarily use 45 degrees but find 40 to not be too stretched out. I don't really go beyond those angles unless it is meant to be a really long knot for something like a rolling pin but even then it is personal preference.

 

[Curly]

The few I did looked best when the length of the knot was at least 50% of the average finished blank length. Too long and there is little at either end and too short and it looks lonely or as an afterthought. Tossed the simple jig I made when I moved out here a decade ago so I don't have an angle to give you. Make sense?

 

[Darios]

The few I did looked best when the length of the knot was at least 50% of the average finished blank length. Too long and there is little at either end and too short and it looks lonely or as an afterthought. Tossed the simple jig I made when I moved out here a decade ago so I don't have an angle to give you. Make sense?

I like that. Good tip

 

[Alan Morrison]

I really like 55 to 60 degrees.

 

[jrista]

The few I did looked best when the length of the knot was at least 50% of the average finished blank length. Too long and there is little at either end and too short and it looks lonely or as an afterthought. Tossed the simple jig I made when I moved out here a decade ago so I don't have an angle to give you. Make sense?

Thanks. Yeah, it does make sense... I guess that might be why I'm asking, too. I should probably pull back and simplify things for my first few actual final blanks here, but, I had ambitions to make these blanks segmented and more than just the knot. The top and bottom would be a different wood, likely separated by either another layer of veneer or possibly metal.

The original plan was, once I figured out how to make an optimal knot in a lighter colored wood (likely maple), to measure around the knot by an even amount above and below, trim the knot part of the blank down, and then glue on maybe 1/4" or so of a dark wood and 1/64" of veneer/metal on either end of the blank.

So the part with the knot, would look narrower than the full blank.... I don't know why I originally started at 60 degrees, but that didn't really even support the plan, the knot took up too much space and didn't really allow for the segmenting idea. I guess 45 still felt too..."fat" for the knot? But now I'm worried if I tried 30 degrees, the knot is going to be too scrunched up and maybe the insert material might overlap too much and just not look good.

@SabertoothBunny mentioned 40 degrees. I guess I'll give that a try. I should probably also start this on a pen with a longer blank, instead of a two-piece pen with a relatively short cap.

 

[SabertoothBunny]

Thanks. Yeah, it does make sense... I guess that might be why I'm asking, too. I should probably pull back and simplify things for my first few actual final blanks here, but, I had ambitions to make these blanks segmented and more than just the knot. The top and bottom would be a different wood, likely separated by either another layer of veneer or possibly metal.

The original plan was, once I figured out how to make an optimal knot in a lighter colored wood (likely maple), to measure around the knot by an even amount above and below, trim the knot part of the blank down, and then glue on maybe 1/4" or so of a dark wood and 1/64" of veneer/metal on either end of the blank.

So the part with the knot, would look narrower than the full blank.... I don't know why I originally started at 60 degrees, but that didn't really even support the plan, the knot took up too much space and didn't really allow for the segmenting idea. I guess 45 still felt too..."fat" for the knot? But now I'm worried if I tried 30 degrees, the knot is going to be too scrunched up and maybe the insert material might overlap too much and just not look good.

@SabertoothBunny mentioned 40 degrees. I guess I'll give that a try. I should probably also start this on a pen with a longer blank, instead of a two-piece pen with a relatively short cap.

I am doing classes on the celtic knot making this weekend at the Mid-Atlantic Turners Expo. I will try to get some photos for you of my jig and process that I use with good success rates. But yes, 40 degrees is on the longer side for a pen but that is just from my purview. In the end the knot appearance is personal preference.

 

[jrista]

I am doing classes on the celtic knot making this weekend at the Mid-Atlantic Turners Expo. I will try to get some photos for you of my jig and process that I use with good success rates. But yes, 40 degrees is on the longer side for a pen but that is just from my purview. In the end the knot appearance is personal preference.

Maybe I'm using the angles backwards... When I was saying 60 degrees, the knot ended up quite long. But, I may be measuring the angle differently. I was thinking 40 degrees would be a tighter, shorter knot.

 

[SabertoothBunny]

Maybe I'm using the angles backwards... When I was saying 60 degrees, the knot ended up quite long. But, I may be measuring the angle differently. I was thinking 40 degrees would be a tighter, shorter knot.

No, I think it is just confusing geometry. A 60 degree able will create a lot longer of a knot as you experienced. A lower degree will basically shrink that knot length. The effect is essentially the same but the appearance of the know changes with the angle increase or decrease.

 

[Curly]

It depend on how an individual looks at a blank. Some see the angle as the difference from the axis down through the blank. Others see it as the angle from across as in the mitre angle when using a table saw. The only time the two would be the same is 45º, the rest being reciprocals of each other. 30º/60º, 40º/50º 37º/53º etc. If there is an agreed upon standard I haven't seen it. Myself until corrected will use the angle down the axis of the tube.