Celtic Knots - Cut Order? 1,2,3,4 or 1,3,2,4?

[jrista]

In trying to learn how to make quality celtic knot blanks, I've come across various videos on the subject. I've noticed that there may be two different ways to cut, and I'm curious what you celtic knot makers think.

In most videos, especially those where its someone who has never made one or hasn't made many, the cut order is 1, 2, 3, 4 counter-clockwise most of the time I think. Occasionally, I have seen some blank makers do 1, 3, 2, 4 for the cut order, also counter-clockwise in all cases as far as I have seen so far.

One of the things I would like, is to have the various loops overlay each other such that they look like a "real" knot? Where the overlaps are....logical. Sometimes it seems like the overlay of the loops doesn't quite match up, sometimes it really looks like someone tied a string onto a pen.

So I'm curious, which approach do you use, and why?

 

[Alan Morrison]

1-3-2-4. Means that you get all the 'X' superimposed over the 'O' and vice versa. This my way
1-2-3-4. Means that that you get 1 line over and 3 under....which does not look right to me. However some people are happy enough with that look.
Here's one of mine....

 

[jrista]

1-3-2-4. Means that you get all the 'X' superimposed over the 'O' and vice versa. This my way
1-2-3-4. Means that that you get 1 line over and 3 under....which does not look right to me. However some people are happy enough with that look.
Here's one of mine....
View attachment 382283

Ok, I am getting it now. I will need to experiment. A real celtic knot is quite complex, and I am wondering if 1, 2, 3, 4 actually produces a knot more remniscent of the complexity of a real celtic knot. I need to actually make a few here and turn em round and see, though...its tough to fully grasp the nature of these in photos or videos.

 

[Alan Morrison]

The aim of making a good looking knot is to have the 'quadrants' dimensions equal.
Drilling the blank straight is crucial.

I don't regard these as Celtic Knots as they don't bear any relation to such.....but that is what they are known as.

Good luck!!!!

 

[SteveJ]

I prefer 1,3,2,4 to get a knot like Alan shows. Also it is pretty important to keep the blank square.

 

[jrista]

The aim of making a good looking knot is to have the 'quadrants' dimensions equal.
Drilling the blank straight is crucial.

I don't regard these as Celtic Knots as they don't bear any relation to such.....but that is what they are known as.

Good luck!!!!

I dunno, there are a lot of different Celtic knots. There are those large scale ones that indeed, pens don't bear any resemblence to. There is the Triquetra, that three-loop knot that is pretty well known, which I think is similar:

I guess this has a circle in it... There is the Celtic Sailor's knot, which I've always figured was the basis for pen celtic knots:

There is a particular over/under pattern to these...

BTW, is it even possible to do a Triquetra in a pen...? I suspect not, unless the blank itself was triangular...

 

[jrista]

I prefer 1,3,2,4 to get a knot like Alan shows. Also it is pretty important to keep the blank square.

Aye! That I've learned, from the mistakes other people have made in their videos when they do not keep the blank truly square. I have a bandsaw, disc and belt sander, and some sharp chisels, so I think I'm ready to make sure they remain truly square.

 

[Alan Morrison]

Celtic knots all have one thing in common in that the lines all weave over and under.....as shown in your examples.
It is not possible, as much as I have tried, to make a knot in the design that I have shown above to achieve that.
I did make a Solomon Knot that showed this over/under but using a different technique....but it required more work.
Here's the link.....https://www.penturners.org/threads/solomon-knot.182654/
Maybe, when time allows, I will revisit that particular design and refine it.

Let me know how you get on.
Alan

 

[jrista]

Celtic knots all have one thing in common in that the lines all weave over and under.....as shown in your examples.
It is not possible, as much as I have tried, to make a knot in the design that I have shown above to achieve that.
I did make a Solomon Knot that showed this over/under but using a different technique....but it required more work.
Here's the link.....https://www.penturners.org/threads/solomon-knot.182654/
Maybe, when time allows, I will revisit that particular design and refine it.

Let me know how you get on.
Alan

Ah, yeah, I can see how it would probably be impossible without additional cuts and replacing segments (which would then have cut lines in them)...

I had planned to make my first one today. Too darn cold in the shop, though. It was 0 degrees last night, and that really sucks all teh heat out of my uninsulated garage/workshop. (I should probably remedy that situation at some point...put in insulation and drywall over all the uninsulated walls.) I will try...well, I guess the first warm enough day here.

In the mean time I'm back to another project I started a while ago. Engraving pens with my pen wizard. That is at least an indoor task (once a blank is rounded.)