Cactus Juice problem?

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Pens By Scott

Pens By Scott

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2010
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765
Location
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Hey there,
Not sure if anyone has run into this... stems from forgetfulness.... and losing track of time...

I left my blanks in cactus juice, under vaccuum, over night... then forgot that I did... wait for it, -- a few weeks.

Good news, my vaccuum pot has an excellent seal, it lost no vaccuum over the period of time... Thr problem comes when opened it up, and went to get the blanks out...

This is what I found, the bottom row of blanks were conjoined, in a hardening gelatinous mass. It's a weird sensation, like mucus with a harder clear core... out "skin" is like melted gummie bears.

Has anyone run into this? Are the blanks still good to bake (harden) or should I cut my losses toss out the batch and get new fresh Juice?
 

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I would not throw the blanks out. It appears the bulk liquid has slowly, and incompletely, polymerized and that should be tossed. If after atmospheric pressure was restored there was liquid cactus juice above the polymer blob and the blanks were covered with the liquid Cactus Juice, there likely is Cactus Juice and catalyst in the wood. You have nothing to lose by cleaning the blanks off and popping them in the oven. I can't say with 100% certainty they will be good, but if I had to bet my money would be on a decent outcome. Good luck.
 
The manufacturer says there's no problem with the time the blanks are in the CJ. I don't know about the issue in the bottom but like mentioned before why not follow through with the process. If you don't you'll never know what would've happened.
 
I have let wood soak in Cactus Juice for up to a week under vacuum with no issues and for weeks not under vacuum with no problems. As stated, no loss from where you are in cutting them out of the gel and curing them as normal.

From my experience, Cactus Juice is much more susceptible to issues from leaving exposed to temperatures above 85 degrees F than anything else. Could that have contributed to what you are seeing?
 
MRDucks2 said:
I have let wood soak in Cactus Juice for up to a week under vacuum with no issues and for weeks not under vacuum with no problems. As stated, no loss from where you are in cutting them out of the gel and curing them as normal.

From my experience, Cactus Juice is much more susceptible to issues from leaving exposed to temperatures above 85 degrees F than anything else. Could that have contributed to what you are seeing?
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Pretty sure temperature wasn't a factor, as the were in the crawl space in the basement, and during the period we only had maybe one day that made it up to 85F
Thanks though.
Scott
 
Pens By Scott said:
Yes, they were very dry, wouldn't register on the moisture meter. Spalted Hackberry, that i've had in a dry place for about 6 years. Thanks for the thought.
Scott
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Moisture meters only read down to 5 or 6 percent at best. Blanks need to be dead dry for cactus juice. Meaning, before you put them in the juice you need to dry them with an oven or something where you can get the tempature above 212 degrees Fahrenheit.
Weigh the blank on an accurate scale and write the weight on the blank. Dry the piece for several hours.
Pull it out and weigh it again. Write that wright down. Immediately put in back in the oven and for another hour or two. Pull them out and weigh again.

Repeat until you get two weights which are exactly the same. Then immediately place the blank in a ziplock bag or if you have a foodsavor vacuum bagging system, use that. Allow the blank to cool to room temperature.
Once at room temperature, then begin the stabilizing process. Ensure the blank is completely covered and there is several inches of liquid above the top of the blank.

My other though is that if the soaking part lost vacuum and it was in a crawlspace, there may have been moisture infiltration, which could have ruined the cactus juice.
 
Pens By Scott said:
Pretty sure temperature wasn't a factor, as the were in the crawl space in the basement, and during the period we only had maybe one day that made it up to 85F
Thanks though.
Scott
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My wording or yours may be a bit off, my temperature reference was regarding the Cactus Juice itself in case that wasn't clear.
 
One other thing is you're not supposed to store cactus juice in an air tight container. Keeping it under a vacuum for weeks on end might have contributed to what happened.
 
Pens By Scott said:
so, you're thinking maybe, the CJ increased in temperature as in a reaction with the blanks? regardless of the outer air temperature? That's an interesting thought.
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Not necessarily, but it is a thought. Does anyone know if prolonged vacuum can generate heat?
 
Many of these questions would be best answered by the manufacture. I do not understand why it will harden when stored in an air tight container but have had it happen to me. It doesn't sound like temp was an issue. Vacuum is a great insulator and does not generate heat. Moisture was part of the problem. from your description of the wood it was not truly dry but at equilibrium (6-10 percent). as stated, only a very high end meter will read below 5% and can't be trusted for this use. Follow the companies directions, oven dry, confirmed by weight. If you want to let it soak in the CJ do so in an open container.
 
Manufacturer of Cactus Juice here! Let me dispel some of the info in the above posts that are incorrect if I may! Storing in an air tight container is not an issue at all. It is done every day. As a matter of fact, I ship quarts of Cactus Juice already activated and it is in an air tight, induction sealed container. Many of my retailers may have quarts sitting on their shelf for months before it sells. Moisture does not hurt Cactus Juice at all. Moisture will not cause polymerization issues in any way. Moisture is an issue in the wood in the stabilizing process because it occupies space in the wood that could be filled with Cactus Juice. It also causes excess bleedout when you cure your blanks. Keeping the blanks in Cactus Juice either at atmospheric pressure or under vacuum for long periods of time will not cause any issues either. It is not a temperature issue either! Temperature will cause it to cure as a solid rock. When you see gelling, it is not a polymerization issue but rather a contamination issue. Normally this is due to using oily wood.
 
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