Blank Purchase Advice

[hesperaux]

Hi everyone,

I know that this question has probably been asked many times, and I have looked at a few older posts on the topic, but I'd like to ask again if that is ok.

I purchased a handful of pen blanks, not realizing they were too short for bespoke fountain pens. But I had planned to just use them for the body only, or the cap only, etc. But I thought I would go get a second of each so I could finish a full pen with the same style of blank and I noticed that the blanks I bought were listed as having "poor threadability". These are polyester resin blanks (Rhino Plastic). So I hesitate to buy more after reading a couple of posts here about how they don't thread well.

Then, I started looking into it some more, and now I'm not sure what I should stock up on. I like whispy, sparkly, colorful blanks. I'm less attracted to the solid colors and veiny looking ones. I noticed that alumilite seems to less commonly have cool colors like that, and acrylic is available and very affordable with these patterns. But then I was looking at DiamondCast and it looks great, and I have heard it's very good for bespoke pens.

I'm kind of rambling here, but my question is basically: is DiamondCast well worth the extra cost? Can I use the Rhino Plastic successfully for bespoke pens (kitless)? What about acrylic? I'm worried that even if I do thread and tap these parts successfully, that they will break during use; especially if combined with a metal section. I've got a triple start M13 tap/die and I use M10x1 single start for the section/body interface and Jowo #6 drills/tap for the rest of the section.

And by the way, does Diamond Cast go on sale often, or should I just get stuff full price? Whether or not it's necessary, they have some really nice looking blanks that I would like to try.

Thanks!

P.S. I just finished making my first bespoke fountain pen, out of black delrin. I messed up the cap a couple of times but it all ended up working. I burnt the body while buffing but this pen is just a practice run and I'm pretty happy. But, that gives you an idea of where I'm at with skill level. Maybe I will share a photo of my first attempt on the forum.

 

[hooked]

Rhino plastic is very brittle. I have had tenons snap off when using a die on a tenon to cut threads. When they are dropped, they can chip very easily with no brass tube support. It seems most blanks are listed as acrylic, but you should avoid some more brittle ones when starting. Alumilite, Diamond Cast, and other urethane casting resins are easy to turn and shine up well but do not shine up as well as acrylic. The thing about alumilite blanks is that you can't judge by the look of the rod. Look for a turned pen with the material, and you will notice that what it looks like at 13-16mm looks a lot different than what you see on the outside of the blank. That area is where the colors matter.

Below are a few blank artists who make longer casting resin blanks that I use for custom pens that you can check out. They will offer a larger selection of their blanks than you find in stores. Almost all of these are alumilite or a similar resin.

McKenzie Penworks (Diamondcast maker)
Turnt Pen Company
Pensmiths
Pourly Controlled
Starry Night Resins
Stormwind Blanks

Besides that, Exotic Blanks generally list whether a material is threadable in its acrylic blank section. Check out their Conway Color blanks for an interesting vintage look that shines up well.

Turner's Warehouse sells some longer blanks from Hobble Creek Craftsman, Top Choice, and Stormwind Blanks, though these are alumilite.

If you would like to go outside the US, Beaufort has a good selection of nice acrylic, as does Turners Workshop.

Good luck!

 

[d_bondi]

I second all of Mark's (@hooked) comments and recommendations.

I have turned materials from McKenzie (Diamondcast), TurntPenCo, Pensmiths, and Pourly Controlled and they are all great.

One that he mentioned, but did not provide a link for, is HobbleCreekCraftsman. He has an Etsy Store and a Website and his materials are also great. I like supporting local and he is less than an hour from me.

I have also used Ebonite and really like that as well. I use it mostly for sleeving wood pens and making sections. You can get it from Vermont Freehand.

My recommendation is that you stick with either Alumilite or Ebonite until you get things really figured out, they are more forgiving than many of the other materials, they both thread very well, and finish well.

Good Luck, let us know if you have any other questions, and most importantly have fun and keep sharing your work!

David

 

[NJturner]

Hi everyone,

I know that this question has probably been asked many times, and I have looked at a few older posts on the topic, but I'd like to ask again if that is ok.

I purchased a handful of pen blanks, not realizing they were too short for bespoke fountain pens. But I had planned to just use them for the body only, or the cap only, etc. But I thought I would go get a second of each so I could finish a full pen with the same style of blank and I noticed that the blanks I bought were listed as having "poor threadability". These are polyester resin blanks (Rhino Plastic). So I hesitate to buy more after reading a couple of posts here about how they don't thread well.

Then, I started looking into it some more, and now I'm not sure what I should stock up on. I like whispy, sparkly, colorful blanks. I'm less attracted to the solid colors and veiny looking ones. I noticed that alumilite seems to less commonly have cool colors like that, and acrylic is available and very affordable with these patterns. But then I was looking at DiamondCast and it looks great, and I have heard it's very good for bespoke pens.

I'm kind of rambling here, but my question is basically: is DiamondCast well worth the extra cost? Can I use the Rhino Plastic successfully for bespoke pens (kitless)? What about acrylic? I'm worried that even if I do thread and tap these parts successfully, that they will break during use; especially if combined with a metal section. I've got a triple start M13 tap/die and I use M10x1 single start for the section/body interface and Jowo #6 drills/tap for the rest of the section.

And by the way, does Diamond Cast go on sale often, or should I just get stuff full price? Whether or not it's necessary, they have some really nice looking blanks that I would like to try.

Thanks!

P.S. I just finished making my first bespoke fountain pen, out of black delrin. I messed up the cap a couple of times but it all ended up working. I burnt the body while buffing but this pen is just a practice run and I'm pretty happy. But, that gives you an idea of where I'm at with skill level. Maybe I will share a photo of my first attempt on the forum.

I agree with the comments made so far, but would like to offer a little bit more. I do cast my own blanks - I stopped buying blanks a few years back because my goal has been to produce every possible part of a custom pen myself, versus purchasing it. I cast primarily Alumilite, but am now trying my first batch of Liquid Diamonds epoxy (versus the urethane of Alumilite). I am also looking to use up some of my resin stock and purchase some of the new epoxy Tim McKenzie has offered to us casters. You can get both Alumilite and Liquid Diamonds on sale - especially now during the holidays. Alumilite makes for some pretty nice castings, threads well, but is tougher to get really shiny and is a bit sensitive to UV light, yellowing it with age. Tim's product sounds like it offers the benefits of Alumilite with a much better protection from UV light yellowing, so it is next on my 'try it' list. Liquid Diamonds is also an epoxy resin which I am trying to see if it matches with my 3d printed parts I want to use in my custom pens - no real success using Alumilite. Liquid Diamonds also seems to be better at UV sensitivity, has a long 'pot' time, allowing you to mix coloring in longer, and is supposed to polish quicker and easier than ALumilite. Goes without say you need a pressure pot for all of these.

I abandoned my pre-made HDLP molds due to their short length when I started thinking about custom pens. I now almost exclusively cast vertically in 8" silicone molds from PTownSubbie. They support the extra length needed for custom pen making. But prior to casting, I might suggest you try a few other options - especially regarding length and threadability. Sleeving was mentioned above - and it is the normal go to choice for people using materials that do not thread well. You can modify the sleeving length and diameter as you want to also make it into a detail of the total pen, allowing the sleeve material to show and lengthen the blank when the blank may be a tad short. You can also do a lot with shorter 'mix and match' blanks, using 2 totally different blanks to become together the top and bottom of the pen despite their different colors. Mixed colored pens seemed to be very popular right now, and that eliminates the need for a single long blank to make a pen, when you can combine two blanks and get more than what you need.

I guess in all of this, my though it design & test your way through it. Test different materials, forget about some of the 'rules' you have been told, and make something you like!

 

[jrista]

Just to throw this out there...and, I am not (YET!) a kitless pen crafter...but, another interesting material for kitless pens is ebonite. Its a hard rubber, and like the other materials mentioned such as alumilite and diamond cast, its a softer material that should be more forgiving.

I don't know that you could find it in bright sparkly colors, but then again, I myself go for earthy tones with swirls & other textures and such, so I'm not necessarily looking at every option. It is also a useful material for certain parts of a kitless pen, so it might be worth looking into anyway.

 

[hesperaux]

Thanks all for the great information. I'll check out all of the suppliers mentioned.

I didn't mention it in my post, but I was definitely gonna pick up some ebonite blanks from Vermont Freehand. I have read and seen video of people having great results with it.

I have a followup question now.
Today, I received an order from Turner's Warehouse with some alumilite blanks. (https://www.turnerswarehouse.com/products/pen-blanks-polyester-resin-pen-blanks) these crocus ones. I bought two so that I could make a full pen.

I decided to do a little work after my day job tonight, and so I grabbed one of these and chucked it in my 4 jaw, center drilled it, and started to turn it down to a cylinder with a spindle gouge. It made quite a mess, and the stench was overwhelming. I was wearing a face shield and an n95 mask, which clearly did nothing to keep the fumes out of my face holes. This got me a little concerned, as I've not seen or heard anyone mention alumilite stinking so bad. I knew ebonite would smell, but I assumed that would be a problem for another day.

I've looked into it a little bit and everything I find says it's very safe to use, even for casting. However, my throat is coated with it and it started giving me mild headache and nausea. Some things I found said alumilite is odorless..? This was very NOT odorless lol. It's got a strange minty fruit kind of smell. It sticks in the back of my throat just like formaldehyde did when I took gross anatomy in college.

So, the questions:
- is this normal for alumilite blanks?
- do I need to wear PPE?
- my basement is where I work on this; it has 0 ventilation. I also have cats and my girlfriend is sensitive to smells (many trigger migraines). Is it safe for these fumes to linger or accumulate? I keep the door to the back basement shop closed (it's also our laundry area) so the animals can't get back there and lick/sniff stuff. But my g/f has frequent reasons to go down there and I don't want to put anyone else at risk either.

I've got a 3M respirator. If it's relatively safe, I'm fine getting some VOC filters and wearing the respirator.

I was going to go buy a bunch of blanks tonight, but I think I'm going to wait another day and see what you all have to say about the fumes.

@NJturner, sharing about casting was super convenient, thanks. I actually just bought a small dual-blank mold and figured I would (eventually) delve into this. Your comments on the fumes in particular would be helpful, since you might know what is causing the odor in these blanks I got. I, too, want to end up making ALL of the pen (as much as possible) for the same reasons as you.

Thanks everyone for being so generous with your time and knowledge; I greatly appreciate it!

 

[d_bondi]

David,

The blanks you linked to are not Alumilite, they are polyester resin, and yes, they stink when turned, I have turned them. I notice no significant odor when turning actual Alumilite. Alumilite is a urethane resin.

The Ebonite will smell of sulfur when you turn it.

I have and use a 3M half face respirator with VOC canisters. If you can smell anything at all when wearing this with the canisters, then it is not fitting correctly. Note: Facial hair can be an issue with fitment. This will protect you, but unfortunately not your cats and girlfriend. Do you have a way to exhaust out of a basement window? I would recommend looking into that.

Buy a few of the 8" blanks made for bespoke/kitless (you only need one per pen) from one or two of the vendors that @hooked or I listed above. Those are Alumilite.

David

 

[hesperaux]

David,

Aha! I thought they were alumilite because it said "AL" on the label, but actually that was the label on the round blanks... *facepalm*
That makes MUCH more sense. It's good to hear that alumilite will in fact not have that stench! I do have a couple of blanks that I think are actually alumilite that I got in the same order (apologies for the confusion). They are Top Choice XL blanks and the description does actually say alumilite.

This is kind of a relief, actually.

We are supposed to be getting new basement windows in 2025 (the ones we have do not open and are VERY old and rusty). But until then, there's unfortunately no viable path, unless I want to pump air into my dryer exhaust hose .

Do you think it would be alright for others in the household if I were using only alumilite, and while working I wore a VOC respirator for myself? If so, that seems like a perfectly reasonable option. I am fine with completely cutting my losses on the polyester resins.

Tomorrow, hopefully it will have aired out down there. If so, I'll throw one of the Top Choice blanks into the lathe and chop a section off and see how the odor is. If it's not bad, I will go ahead and buy some more blanks from the aforementioned sources and start having some fun.

By the way, do you know if ebonite is toxic? I plan on buying some of that as well, but if it will require better ventilation I will just wait until I can do something about that. In Illinois, I don't have the luxury of using the garage during the winter time (and honestly it's not very fun in the summer either).

 

[d_bondi]

I can't speak to the actual toxicity of any of these materials. But, I figure that if it smells that bad, avoiding prolonged exposure is a good idea. Once you have the ability to exhaust some air from the basement work area, it should create negative pressure in your work area and should draw air from the house through your work area and then exhaust outside. At least that is the idea.

I am fortunate to be able to work in my garage shop year around now because I treated myself to a 2 ton mini-split heat pump for my shop. But when I turn ebonite, it definitely stinks the place up and I have to get some actual ventilation going to clear it out. Without the ability to open a window or something, there is no telling how long it will take to get that sulfur smell out of your basement.

I grew up in Eastern Iowa, so I completely understand your situation regarding weather and an unconditioned garage space.

 

[NJturner]

@hesperaux I think David (@d_bondi) covered this pretty well, but since you asked, I thought I would reply as well. You are definitely right to be concerned with the odor of some of the materials - both when casting and turning. Even 3D printing of some filaments can be an issue. The issue lots of folks have is they refer to non-wood blanks by the larger grouping of simply 'resin'. There are a lot of differences in each, as you quickly learned. Alumilite makes a huge mess when turning - ribbons everywhere - but it is pretty odor free when turned. Polyester stinks. Ebonite (not really a resin) REALLY stinks! Some epoxy resin's have a little to more odor both when casting and turning. Personal protection is a must, but as stated needs to be for VOC filtration not just for particulates. Venting your shop will definitely help - interesting you state using the dryer vent, as I actually added a second larger dryer like flapper vent a few feet down the wall from the dryer vent and use a 5" flex hose on it which goes between being the outlet for my shop heater/cooler and an opening for allowing me to snake my compressor hose out when I need to nail stuff outside, so why not use it to vent air out? Any ability to add fresh air into your shop will be a plus.

I also work in an unheated garage. In the winter, I attached a large painters tarp from Harbor Freight to eyelets in the ceiling, which closes and goes all the way to the floor and allows me to isolate off a portion of the garage for my shop. I insulated the outer two other walls with normal insulation and covered it with 3/4" plywood, so between the sheets and the real outside walls, I have an enclosed space of about 12x14. I heat this space with a roll around heat pump unit I bought at Costco which provides both AC in the summer and heat in the winter. It works great until the temps drop below 30 degrees, when I have to add a catalytic electric heater into the mix. I live in a very dense housing area, so neighbors are really close by so I have to be aware of not causing issues with my venting of odors or dust. I work all year round, but sometimes have to wait to do casting when the temps are too low to be able to allow controlled curing of the resin.

 

[mredburn]

I'm late to the party but you can use solid black ebonite or Alumilite blanks to make the front nose cone or front Nib section as well as the Threaded sleeve on the cap. Simply glue them to the blanks you have issues threading with, or are to short. You may need to tenon one of them for structural integrity.

 

[jrista]

The blanks you linked to are not Alumilite, they are polyester resin, and yes, they stink when turned, I have turned them. I notice no significant odor when turning actual Alumilite. Alumilite is a urethane resin.

The Ebonite will smell of sulfur when you turn it.

I have and use a 3M half face respirator with VOC canisters. If you can smell anything at all when wearing this with the canisters, then it is not fitting correctly. Note: Facial hair can be an issue with fitment. This will protect you, but unfortunately not your cats and girlfriend. Do you have a way to exhaust out of a basement window? I would recommend looking into that.

Huh, I never knew the ebonite smelled like sulfur. I always, always wear a respirator with organic vapor filters, so I never smell anything.

I do remember smelling antler and horn when I was turning some of that in the past. That s tuff smells like burning hair, but outside of that, I hardly ever know what blanks smell like!

 

[d_bondi]

Huh, I never knew the ebonite smelled like sulfur. I always, always wear a respirator with organic vapor filters, so I never smell anything.

I do remember smelling antler and horn when I was turning some of that in the past. That s tuff smells like burning hair, but outside of that, I hardly ever know what blanks smell like!

I wear a respirator as well, but... the smell lingers in the shop

 

[jrista]

I wear a respirator as well, but... the smell lingers in the shop

Yeah, I am so allergic to stuff, I never take the respirator off until I'm indoors...and even then, I still have to wash my hands, and I usually wipe off the respirator off with a damp cloth as well. If I don't, one way or another, the particulates get in my nose, sinuses, and lungs and usually cause some degree of health problem. So I never really have the opportunity to smell anything these days...I'm too paranoid!!

 

[hesperaux]

First, the suggestion to use the dryer vent was a joke, but now that you mention it, maybe I will actually see if that's feasible lol.
Second, I am gonna wait on the ebonite for now, at least until I find out if it is toxic to inhale.
I bought VOC cartridges for my respirator. I didn't use them tonight, but I will be using them tomorrow and continue to do so regardless of what I'm working on - it can only help.

Some good news, I took an hour this evening to try out one of my alumilite blanks. Man, that is the nicest material I've ever worked with. Wow! It cuts so beautifully! And the smell is indeed very minimal. Until I was actually shaping it I barely could smell anything. I am so relieved and excited.

I didn't sand or polish it yet, but here's what I made tonight:


It turned out awesome. I'm thrilled. During my spare time the rest of the week I will complete a body and a cap. Also, I made a large order from ThePenSmiths. Lots of awesome and exciting blanks coming to me soon! In the meantime, I have two 12" blanks and two 5 inch blanks I can work with.

I'm late to the party but you can use solid black ebonite or Alumilite blanks to make the front nose cone or front Nib section as well as the Threaded sleeve on the cap. Simply glue them to the blanks you have issues threading with, or are to short. You may need to tenon one of them for structural integrity.

This is a good idea, actually. So basically make a multi-material pen that allows for strength where it's needed?

 

[d_bondi]

I'm glad to see it is working out for you.

 

[duncsuss]

Excellent!

One word of advice - I see that you turned away the threads closest to where the tenon meets the main part of the section you made, here:

I used to do that but found it weakened the section and lost many to breakages at that point. So instead I now remove the first thread or two of the mating surface (inside the barrel) which solves the problem of the threads on the tenon not being fully formed all the wall to the wall.

I do the same thing for the cap-to-barrel threads - remove from inside the cap instead of making a groove around the barrel. (Mostly I do that because I think the groove looks ugly and feels nasty when I'm holding the pen, I've never had a barrel break at that point.)

 

[d_bondi]

I second Duncan's suggestion.

Several of the folks out on YouTube suggest this method, I know. I used to do it as well, but now, as Duncan notes, I just provide the relief on the inside of the cap and barrel threads. This avoids making weak spots weaker and for the barrel section, I prefer the look where the threads continue right into the body without that relief cut.

David

 

[hesperaux]

Putting the relief cut into the cap is a great idea. I will try that on my next one. I actually think the tenon relief looks kinda neat, but I think the prevailing opinion is the opposite, so I will go that route. I like the idea of doing that for the barrel too. It will also make it easier to thread them onto their mates, as well, if done that way.

 

[duncsuss]

I actually think the tenon relief looks kinda neat, but I think the prevailing opinion is the opposite, so I will go that route.

Maybe try both ways and choose the one that works best for you. Your combination of tenon sizes and materials might be stronger than the ones I chose, and it won't create a weak location inclined to break the way mine did.

 

[hesperaux]

Tonight's progress. Not polished yet.
Having a lot of fun!
Trying to do a threaded postable back.