Blank Drilling

[Tom2432]

Hello!

I'm glad to be here! I need some help with drilling my blanks. I'm drilling a 3/8 hole in my blank for the tube on a drill press and when I'm through, the hole in the blank is a very small amount too big for the tube. I'm using CA glue to glue the tube in the blank and I'm not having any trouble with that, but when I put it on the lathe to turn, sometimes the tool will catch that little difference between the tube and the blank and it tears a chunk out and I've lost it. I'm sure it's something I'm doing wrong, but I would appreciate someone out there that's an expert to tell me what I'm doing wrong. I really appreciate it, Thanks very much...Tom

 

[Muddydogs]

Keep the blank a little longer so you can sand or cut off the ends of the blank after installing the tube. My drill press has a little run out so the entry hole is always a little big, when gluing in the tube I insert it from the bottom side of the drill hole leaving a little blank on each side to remove.

 

[Darios]

Hey Tom - are you squaring the blank down to the tube size after glueing?

 

[egnald]

Hi Tom,

You will likely get many answers to your question. I don't have a perfect system, but I can tell you what I do and what I've learned about how important good glue coverage is to prevent catches from tearing your blank apart (as you have already found out the hard way).

I use epoxy to glue my tubes in and then use CA to fill in any gaps that show up.
First, I use something called "foundation wax" to plug the ends of my tubes to help keep glue out of them when I am inserting them into the blanks. I think other people use Play-Dough, or Base Plate Wax (like Ed sells on Exotic Blanks).

After the epoxy has set for an hour or so, I use my belt sander to square the blanks to the tubes. At that point, if there is a visible gap between the blank and the tube, I use a technique I learned from Zac Higgins to where I plug the end of the tube with a silicone stopper and then flood thin CA glue into the gap. Zac has a video that explains it far better than I ever could. Here is the the link to his video is How I Glue Tubes in Acrylic and Mixed Material Pen Blanks.

Another great video about why good gluing technique is so important was done by Mark Dryer. I think both of these are worth taking a look at. Here is a link to Mark's video: 10 Minutes To Better Pen Making - Gluing - Mark Dreyer.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Tom2432]

Hi Tom,

You will likely get many answers to your question. I don't have a perfect system, but I can tell you what I do and what I've learned about how important good glue coverage is to prevent catches from tearing your blank apart (as you have already found out the hard way).

I use epoxy to glue my tubes in and then use CA to fill in any gaps that show up.
First, I use something called "foundation wax" to plug the ends of my tubes to help keep glue out of them when I am inserting them into the blanks. I think other people use Play-Dough, or Base Plate Wax (like Ed sells on Exotic Blanks).

After the epoxy has set for an hour or so, I use my belt sander to square the blanks to the tubes. At that point, if there is a visible gap between the blank and the tube, I use a technique I learned from Zac Higgins to where I plug the end of the tube with a silicone stopper and then flood thin CA glue into the gap. Zac has a video that explains it far better than I ever could. Here is the the link to his video is How I Glue Tubes in Acrylic and Mixed Material Pen Blanks.

Another great video about why good gluing technique is so important was done by Mark Dryer. I think both of these are worth taking a look at. Here is a link to Mark's video: 10 Minutes To Better Pen Making - Gluing - Mark Dreyer.

Regards,
Dave

Thank you so much Dave.....that really helped me!! I really appreciate it!!

 

[Tom2432]

Hey Tom - are you squaring the blank down to the tube size after glueing?

Yes.....I'm using the end mill after the glue has set up then squaring down to the tube.

 

[Tom2432]

Keep the blank a little longer so you can sand or cut off the ends of the blank after installing the tube. My drill press has a little run out so the entry hole is always a little big, when gluing in the tube I insert it from the bottom side of the drill hole leaving a little blank on each side to remove.

I'm doing that....probably 1/8 or 3/16 longer on each end of the blank. Thanks for the help, I appreciate it....

 

[Darios]

a technique I learned from Zac Higgins to where I plug the end of the tube with a silicone stopper and then flood thin CA glue into the gap. Zac has a video that explains it far better than I ever could. Here is the the link to his video is How I Glue Tubes in Acrylic and Mixed Material Pen Blanks.

Oh sunofabiscuit. Dave, if we are ever at the same location, that's now about 14 or 15 beverages of your choice that I owe ya.

And one for Zac, and about bizzilionty for Mark.

 

[Muddydogs]

I'm doing that....probably 1/8 or 3/16 longer on each end of the blank. Thanks for the help, I appreciate it....

If your leaving that much room and still having problem you probably need to try a different drill bit and check your drill press for excessive run out, sounds like your drilling an oval instead of a round hole all the way through the blank.
What type of chuck do you have on your drill press? Mines a keyed chuck and if I tighten the bit down by just using one key hole the bit wobbles. I tighten the chuck by using all three key holes like one would do with lug nuts.
My next tool purchase will be a new drill press to replace the 20 year old cheap Ryobi that has served me well.

 

[BULLWINKLE]

Hello!

I'm glad to be here! I need some help with drilling my blanks. I'm drilling a 3/8 hole in my blank for the tube on a drill press and when I'm through, the hole in the blank is a very small amount too big for the tube. I'm using CA glue to glue the tube in the blank and I'm not having any trouble with that, but when I put it on the lathe to turn, sometimes the tool will catch that little difference between the tube and the blank and it tears a chunk out and I've lost it. I'm sure it's something I'm doing wrong, but I would appreciate someone out there that's an expert to tell me what I'm doing wrong. I really appreciate it, Thanks very much...Tom

Tom,
Two suggestions for you.
1) Drilling th

Hello!

I'm glad to be here! I need some help with drilling my blanks. I'm drilling a 3/8 hole in my blank for the tube on a drill press and when I'm through, the hole in the blank is a very small amount too big for the tube. I'm using CA glue to glue the tube in the blank and I'm not having any trouble with that, but when I put it on the lathe to turn, sometimes the tool will catch that little difference between the tube and the blank and it tears a chunk out and I've lost it. I'm sure it's something I'm doing wrong, but I would appreciate someone out there that's an expert to tell me what I'm doing wrong. I really appreciate it, Thanks very much...Tom

Tom,
Everyone has preferences as there are different methods of doing this. Not to say anyone else's way is wrong. Just saying what has always worked for me.
First, I found that drilling the blank on the lathe is much more accurate than the drill press I used for years.
Second, use a five minute epoxy to glue the tubes in but give it HOURS to cure and ignore the five minutes.
Do not use CA to glue in tubes. Yes you can and some do but the majority of people use epoxy over CA for this.
Third, I recommend carbide chisels. If you use conventional chisels, they MUST be very sharp.

 

[bugradx2]

Lots of folks with wonderful ideas on here

Similar to Mark Dreyer's approach, I cut the blank a little long and drill from the "middle". I use my lathe to drill because my drill press doesn't have enough throw to drill the correct length for some pens. Once I've drilled out the hole then I'll cut the other end off to have a good square hole on that side. If your drill press has a wobble then you may need to make the blank extra, extra long, replace the press or start drilling on the lathe. Once I glue I will sand down to square the blank to the tube

 

[bsshog40]

How are you stabilizing your blank when drilling? This is what I have mounted on my drill press. If there's no wobble in your drill press, make sure your blank is stable also.

 

[calabrese55]

Couple of things to consider
Your drill (s) may be dull or poor quality, blanks are always drilled into end grain a sharp bit is very important.
Need to solidly clamp, hold your blank throughout the drilling operation
change the speed of your drill sometimes slower speeds will bring less chatter
Install your drill bit as fat into the chuck you can and use at least two of the chuck key locations to tighten the chuck
bring your press table up as high as possible to get the blank under the bit with minimal clearance before drilling
Use at least one possibly two pilot holes before drilling to final diameter
get a couple of brad point bits for the sizes you need
lastly are you using stringy course grain blanks like red oak, ash
calabrese55

 

[randyrls]

Tom; Check the drill press for run out. Check your drill bit for bends by rolling it on a flat surface. If it doesn't roll evenly, replace the bit. Put a transfer punch or other straight piece of steel (not drill bit) in the drill press and run it at slow speed. Put a sharpie up to the rod and see if it makes a mark all the way round. Remember to tighten all the holes in the chuck.

If you are using CA on a segmented blank that is the wrong glue. Is the tube scuffed? Scuff all brass tubes. You need even complete coverage and bonding in the glue bond. Polyurethane (original foaming Gorilla glue) or Epoxy is the way to go.

What turning tool are you using? Avoid carbide. You need sharp drill bits and HSS turning tools. A gouge to start and a skew to finish. Skews take some time to master.

With segmented blanks, sand the corner edges gently round. Before turning. Put as little stress on the blank as possible when turning. Turn the blank down to round with whatever tool you have and turn down to finished size with the skew in a shearing cut (not scrap).

Lastly check in the "Members", "Member Map" menu to see if any IAP members live near you, or Check the AAW chapters list for a woodturning chapter near you.

Nothing beats standing beside someone and being able to ask questions. Look for a woodturning club in your area. AAW has chapters all over. https://www.woodturner.org/Woodturn...spx?hkey=1c4d6fa8-6094-4dd1-888a-e0c3e2809c3e

Sorry for the length.....

 

[Muddydogs]

What turning tool are you using? Avoid carbide. You need sharp drill bits and HSS turning tools. A gouge to start and a skew to finish. Skews take some time to master.

Why avoid carbide? Carbide cut segmented, wood and resin blanks just fine. As a new turner you have greater chance of having a sharp tool and a very low risk of a catch with carbide over HSS. The negative rake square and round carbide cutters reduce the chances of a catch even more.

 

[ed4copies]

Predrill a smaller hole maybe 5/16--then come through with the 3/8--the hole should be cleaner and not "flared"

 

[monophoto]

Everyone has their own favorite approach to this problem, and in my opinion, they are probably all good, especially because if you have worked a process long enough to have developed a 'favorite' approach, that also means that you have done it enough to have worked out the bugs in that process.

FWIW, I only work with wood, but I think most of my process would also work with plastic materials. The main elements are:
1. I prefer drilling on the lathe. I find that approach takes less time and provides more consistent results. I generally put the blank between centers to knock the corners off and cut a tenon on one end that I then grip in a chuck for drilling. By the way, centering the hole exactly isn't critical. The hole needs to be straight, but as long as there is enough material around the outside of the tube to be able to turn your final shape, that's good enough.
2. I always scuff the tubes with sandpaper.
3. I use a shop-made tube insertion tool made by turning a tapered rod from HDPE - salvaged from a cutting board bought at the dollar store.
4. I prefer to use polyurethane glue. Yes, its messy, and I really despise the stuff - but I think its the best solution for gluing tubes. Epoxy is also very good. Both epoxy and polyurethane cure to create a flexible bond that withstands turning better than the brittle joint you get with CA.
5. I first run some water through the hole in the blank. Polyurethane glue needs moisture to cure.
6. Then, placing the tube on the HDPE insertion tool, I apply glue all over the outside of the tube - I never put glue inside the tube. The key here is to get an even application while not using too much glue. Trial and error helps fine-tune the application process. I generally apply a couple of beads of glue lengthwise, and then use a toothpick to spread those beads around the circumference of the tube.
7. Once the glue has been applied and spread, I insert the tube into the blank, twisting it as it goes in to further spread the glue. Getting glue uniformly distributed over the tube is key to just about everyone's approach. Getting that insertion right may be the part of the process that takes the most practice - you want to insert the tube smoothly, rotating as you push it in, but always keeping the tube moving into the blank. so that the movement of the tube drags the glue, spreading it onto the walls of the hole in the blank. If you master that procsss, you won't get any glue inside the tube. However, if you stop the forward motion, back up, and then push forward again, glue will fill the end of the tube.
8. Polyurethane glue foams and expands as it cures, and that expansion can force the tube out of the blank, so its important to do something to hold the tube in place. This is a low-force situation, so its not necessary to go crazy - clamps are a solution, but probably overkill in terms of holding the tube in place. In fact, wrapping a bit of blue painters tape over the ends of the tube is generally enough.
9. Let the glue cure thoroughly - overnight at least.
10. Square the ends of the blank down to the tube - don't remove too much brass, but you do want to see bright metal. Then, remove any glue that may have found its way into the tube. Again, if you get the insertion process perfect, there will be very little glue in the tube, and what little there is will be mostly cured foam that can easily be peeled out.

 

[leehljp]

Why avoid carbide? Carbide cut segmented, wood and resin blanks just fine. As a new turner you have greater chance of having a sharp tool and a very low risk of a catch with carbide over HSS. The negative rake square and round carbide cutters reduce the chances of a catch even more.

HSS can be sharpened much finer than that vast majority of carbide. Carbide will keep its sharpness much longer but its initial sharpness cannot match up to a finely sharpened HSS.

"Catches" come about with combinations of inexperienced techniques, dull tools and slower turning. I agree that new turners want to focus on producing pens, but after a few are under the belt (or in the pen pocket, so to speak) learning the processes involved (and how to sharpen is a key one) greatly enhances ones skill and production.

I use carbide and HSS. I use HSS to turn segments with metal in them with no problem. I do keep my "swipe board" beside my lathe and swipe the tool once or twice over .5 micron SP about once every minute or so to keep it honed. That takes a couple or three seconds and keep the tool pristine sharp. I use HSS for finish turning exclusively, and carbide for rough turning.

 

[calabrese55]

I do not understand the apparent debate of HHS vs carbide. Pen making, woodworking is about making. To me it matters not if a pen is made on a treadle lathe with tools created from reworked files or automotive leaf springs or the finest cutting edge HHS and state of the are wood lathe. This is about the making. Yes you can argue the efficiency the tradition, the quality of the finish and a hundred more points assigned to turning one way or the other but it all matters not. What matters is the passion in someone's heart, the skill is someone's hands and the joy that comes from the making.
I for a time had a wood working shop for hire. I made stuff that people told me they wanted and they paid me to make for them. My shop caught the eye of an older gentleman who was retired sales for Biesemeyer. He stopped by now and then over the period of a couple of years and always kind of chided me about the quality of my tools . His exact words were and I quote "how do you make the stuff you make with the tools you have" This was not a compliment to me, in fact I was silently insulted. It was clear he held contempt his way of imposing on me what he felt was not proper woodworking. That man taught me a valuable lesson , it goes something like this: It doesn't make a difference how a craftsman produces a product a Freddy Flintstone hammer and stone chisel or the best tools money can buy AS LONG AS IT IS GOOD WHEN IT REACHES THE CUSTOMER OR CREATES PRIDE IN THE HEART AND HANDS THAT MADE IT.
The picture below is a segmented bowl that I know for a fact was never tooled with HSS, not a single revolution. By most standards it is still a segmented bowl...................................Just go make something and let your hands tell the story of the passion in your heart!
calabrese55

 

[triw51]

I totally agree with @calabrese55. It isn't about your equipment it is about your passion, your learning, your skill and the end product you are proud of.

 

[Muddydogs]

I'm not debating anything, I don't care what people use. I will point out misinformation.

 

[leehljp]

ca

I do not understand the apparent debate of HHS vs carbide.
calabrese55

When someone such as Tom2432

"sometimes the tool will catch that little difference between the tube and the blank and it tears a chunk out and I've lost it."

. . .
If you do not want to help them, that's OK. But when someone offers some help that you may not understand to be help, then let it go.

Quite often there are several options offered as to what can help, and that is what we are here to do. Even Muddydogs may not agree with Randy or me, at least he is giving an opinion or what works for him even if he thinks that others information is misinformation, which mine wasn't. But that is OK, it doesn't hurt my feelings.

When someone asks for help, offer some, even if it may not be the correct answer in the end.

One of the brightest spots in this forum has been the number of people through the years who jump in to help, and usually with the best of intentions even if it is the wrong answer for the specific problem. Discouraging from offering information or jumping on others to quieten them is one way to hurt a forum for sure.

And, IF someone cannot afford the best equipment, I fully understand. That is why I use HSS the most. Most HSS tools are quite a bit cheaper than going down the carbide route. I just learned what they call steel chisels (HSS) and use that term. Shucks, most of my HSS are harbor freights. My favorite two are HF that I re-ground to fit my needs. I had a need to sharpen very sharp and had no one to teach me. I learned on my own. All it took was a little determination and practice. My pen lathe is a 15 year old Rikon that has a 1 inch long crack on one leg. Doesn't bother me one bit. It is not about the most expensive tools, but how to get something done without all the headaches - like you did with the bowl. Congratulations! Beautiful!

Offer help when someone asks, even if others have already chimed in.

 

[calabrese55]

I'm not debating anything, I don't care what people use. I will point out misinformation.

Pointing out misinformation depends on you point of view , personal experience and sometimes an unwillingness to use flexible thinking to expand an inquiring mind can lead to misinformation. Was the moon landing faked.....is the earth truly flat ? These are points of view that are strongly debated, the opposing views will never agree even though one side or the other must be supporting misinformation.
Bill Clinton pretty summed it all up when he said "it depends on what your definition of is , is "
calabrese55

 

[sorcerertd]

As for me, I drill on the lathe. For wood blanks, I use Gorilla poly glue. It foams up and fills in the space. For resin or hybrid blanks, I use 5 minute epoxy.

We all have blowouts for various reasons, usually impatience for me. I believe you might benefit more from practicing your tool technique than drilling. No matter what kind of tool you use, it needs to be sharp. The cuts need to be lighter and lighter as you get closer to the tubes. If the wood is punky or very soft, let a little CA soak in to stabilize it when it gets thin. Keeping your tool rest close to your work makes a very big difference, too.

plug the end of the tube with a silicone stopper and then flood thin CA glue into the gap.

Dave... wow. I coulda hada V8. There is always something new to learn.