Best tools for segmenting?

[Brandy]

I have played around with some segmenting and have found my tools to woefully inadequate when trying to turn a blank that contains metal. I have Robert Sorby HSS tools and admit I am terrible at sharpening. Do I need to get some carbide tools or just learn to sharpen the ones I have?

 

[KenB259]

If you are not adept at sharpening, I would suggest you try carbide. Personally, I am gravitating more and more to carbide. I have plenty of HSS tools, I do know how to use them and I'm decent a sharpening. Carbide is just easier. There are some that say you get a better cut with HSS. I don't find that the case, but it's always a contentious subject. Both HSS tools and carbide tools will work equally well. You really do though need to educate yourself on sharpening.

 

[leehljp]

Segments with metal require SHARP tools, not "sharp enough" but SHARP! Sharp tools do the cutting but even with carbide, you can't force it. That brings us to "patience". It takes a bit longer when cutting metal, even if it is thin aluminum or brass. Too fast of feed will increase the heat and the glue joints will loosen and suddenly come apart on the lathe, flying everywhere. Sooner or later that will happen by rushing the turning.

I agree that carbide will probably be best, but beware, from what I read here, there are good carbide inserts and there are VERY good carbide inserts. There seems to be a difference in quality and sharpness between lower priced ones and higher priced ones. Early on, 6 or 7 years ago, I got a carbide insert and was disappointed although some were impressed. Carbide inserts, 6 - 7 years ago and earlier were not nearly as sharp as a well sharpened HSS tool. Today, as I read from others, carbide inserts can be close to a well done HSS.

I mention that because when you are doing segments with metal in it, sharpness counts.

AS to sharpening, I learned to sharpen fairly good when I was growing up but nothing like a good tool for the lathe needs to be. Then one day I made a segmented pen in which I had to have the tool as sharp as I could possibly get it. I spent several hours just practicing and experimenting with nothing but sharpening until I got the "feel" of it and could repeat it easily. I have not regretted that practice time.

 

[mark james]

If you are 'horrible' at sharpening, then yes, gravitate towards carbide. I agree with Ken that both carbide and HSS will do the job, but you need to find your preference. I actually use both HSS and carbide... I find that the material (or combination of materials; e.g, wood/wood; wood/acrylic; wood/metal, etc) will determine my tool. Some days, I just don't have the control I want and need to switch tools.

BUT - how sharp my HSS is will be a huge factor. Just last week I was turning a blank and one side my HSS didn't seem to cut nicely. I switched to a left-hand hold with the opposite face on the gouge (left side) and it cut like butter. The same tool, just a different approach and cutting edge that was sharper. So be aware that your sharpening skills do matter.

Recently, I have been using a 'Magical skew' and am very pleased with the results.

So... Learn how to use your tools! Whatever you got will probably do a good job with practice. We all start in the 'D League' and want to progress to the 'majors!' Enjoy the ride.

 

[KenB259]

If you are 'horrible' at sharpening, then yes, gravitate towards carbide. I agree with Ken that both carbide and HSS will do the job, but you need to find your preference. I actually use both HSS and carbide... I find that the material (or combination of materials; e.g, wood/wood; wood/acrylic; wood/metal, etc) will determine my tool. Some days, I just don't have the control I want and need to switch tools.

BUT - how sharp my HSS is will be a huge factor. Just last week I was turning a blank and one side my HSS didn't seem to cut nicely. I switched to a left-hand hold with the opposite face on the gouge (left side) and it cut like butter. The same tool, just a different approach and cutting edge that was sharper. So be aware that your sharpening skills do matter.

Recently, I have been using a 'Magical skew' and am very pleased with the results.

So... Learn how to use your tools! Whatever you got will probably do a good job with practice. We all start in the 'D League' and want to progress to the 'majors!' Enjoy the ride.

I also switch between both, totally agree on finding your comfort zone.




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[jttheclockman]

I too use both. I mainly turn down the blank to almost finished size with carbide and finish off with a good sharp skew. That has been my go to tool ever since I started turning. Just learned quickly how to use it. As far as sharpening, you can sharpen carbide cutters too with a good diamond stone. I do this as well and they do not hold the edge as when they were new but I get more life out of them. I use to use jigs to sharpen HSS tools but do it now free hand on a beveled grinder plate. Gotten pretty good but when cutting metals HSS will dull quickly so learn to sharpen quickly.

 

[KenB259]

I too use both. I mainly turn down the blank to almost finished size with carbide and finish off with a good sharp skew. That has been my go to tool ever since I started turning. Just learned quickly how to use it. As far as sharpening, you can sharpen carbide cutters too with a good diamond stone. I do this as well and they do not hold the edge as when they were new but I get more life out of them. I use to use jigs to sharpen HSS tools but do it now free hand on a beveled grinder plate. Gotten pretty good but when cutting metals HSS will dull quickly so learn to sharpen quickly.

I do sharpen all my carbide, should say though I have never tried the negative rake ones. I don't believe you could effectively re sharpen those. The thing I think a lot of people don't realize about carbide is that you don't have to use them solely as scrapers. If you turn your tool at about a 30 degree angle and ride the bevel, you can get skew quality cuts with no sanding needed. I do it all the time.


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[leehljp]

I do sharpen all my carbide, should say though I have never tried the negative rake ones. I don't believe you could effectively re sharpen those. The thing I think a lot of people don't realize about carbide is that you don't have to use them solely as scrapers. If you turn your tool at about a 30 degree angle and ride the bevel, you can get skew quality cuts with no sanding needed. I do it all the time.


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Thanks Ken for re-iterating this aspect of sharp tools. "No sanding needed" is not a characteristic of skew ONLY. Scrapers can do the exact same in cases of hard wood, stabilized wood and most acrylics/cast blanks . I will always let people know that both the skew and scraper can give a "no sanding needed" finish, but listing the "Skew" only when speaking of "no sanding needed" gives the impression that only the skew can do that. WRONG!

Long departed Russ Fairfield wrote this back in 2009:

If you really want to see the extreme differences, try using a both scraper and skew on Cocobolo, Blackwood, or Desert Ironwood. You will find that the scraper might be the better tool for these very hard species. At the opposite extreme, the scraper will be a disaster on a soft wood like Douglas Fir or Pine, while a sharp skew can leave a smooth clean cut and polished surface that doesn't need sanding.

Which requires the least sanding?

On a spindle type turning such as a pen blank, which would leave the blank the smoothest thus allowing the pre-finish sanding to start at a higher grit, a shear scraper or skew chisel? I read an article on the internet recently about shear scraping which indicated that a shear scraper left...

www.penturners.org

Scraper ONLY, NO sanding on the wood/metal:

30 Pieces of Silver

Elegant Beauty TI Gold Bloodwood, BOW, Holly core solder CA finish

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[KenB259]

I do sharpen all my carbide, should say though I have never tried the negative rake ones. I don't believe you could effectively re sharpen those. The thing I think a lot of people don't realize about carbide is that you don't have to use them solely as scrapers. If you turn your tool at about a 30 degree angle and ride the bevel, you can get skew quality cuts with no sanding needed. I do it all the time.


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Good points all. The fact is, you need to be able to match the tool to the job at hand. That takes experience and in addition you need to realize this in itself is a very personal thing. I give you applying a CA finish as an example. Everyone that does it ends up with the same result but we all take a different path.


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[jttheclockman]

I do sharpen all my carbide, should say though I have never tried the negative rake ones. I don't believe you could effectively re sharpen those. The thing I think a lot of people don't realize about carbide is that you don't have to use them solely as scrapers. If you turn your tool at about a 30 degree angle and ride the bevel, you can get skew quality cuts with no sanding needed. I do it all the time.


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I too have used carbide that way many times. Lots of times I experiment on angles and as long as the edge is sharp it will not gouge the wood or acrylic because of the shape of them and the cut angles. Not like a skew because of the thinness of the cutting edge. Anyway the carbides were a good invention for turners and are here to stay. Many newbies can benefit from their use.