Beall Collet Chuck ate my 5/8" Collet

[d_bondi]

So... my beloved 1"x8TPI Beall ER32 collet chuck seized up with my 5/8" collet in it and my @rherrell made mandrels are all 5/8" .

I have heard of these collet chuck getting cross threaded, and I don't think that is what happened with this one, maybe something got in the threads, I don't know. Until this event, I have had no issues with this chuck. I tried everything, force, lubrication, penetrating oil, heat, you name it, I could not get the collet nut off. I called Lee Valley which is who I purchased the chuck from and they offered me a replacement at a 15% discount and no charge for shipping. That felt more than fair so I ordered a replacement.

BUT... I wanted my 5/8" ER32 collet back, so I had to get medieval on it. I did get the collet back and I don't think it is damaged. Tomorrow morning I'll put it in the replacement chuck and check it for runout.

 

[Kenny Durrant]

Wow! I had to do the same thing. I think my problem started with me not fully knowing how to use the thing. I didn't realize that the collet was supposed to snap into the nut before tightening. Once I figured that out and why it seemed to work fine. Then after several hundreds of uses I tried to tighten it down on a piece that must have been a hair undersized. That's when it froze up and I had to destroy the nut to remove the collet. I ended up replacing the whole set. I love the chuck and didn't want to go another route. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[randyrls]

Yes; As Kenny said; There is a specific load order for collet chucks.

1. Snap the collet into the nut. There is a ring inside the nut and it snaps into the groove in the side of the collet
2. Then thread the nut and collet into the chuck body.
3. Finally put the work piece into the collet and tighten.
4. When you loosen the nut; loosen until it tightens up. Keep turning until it snaps free. The ring and groove act to "eject" the collet from the chuck and free the work piece.

The good news is the nuts for a collet chuck have a standard thread. If you did not mess up the chuck threads, the nuts are easy to find in various guises. They can be found with hex head, castle, and grooved (not sure about names) configurations. Reach out to Rick and verify that he put the standard threads on the nut and chuck.

 

[howsitwork]

That's most unusual , ER32 , unless you grip undersized as mentioned above, are normally built like a brick outhouse.

Suggest you buy a replacement ER32 nut, a ball raced one for choice, and keep it as a spare. I note you are checking for runout but it looks ok on photo.

Lee Valley are great to deal with , even across the Atlantic !

 

[rixstix]

One thing I found with my Beall was that the collets don't 'snap' into the nut. There is a place the collet fits but will fall out on its own weight. Since the Beall was my only ER32 experience, I thought it was normal. I also found that the spec for Beall ER chucks is runout of 0.005". This is in the pre-Lee Valley days.

When I got a "Real" ER32 with my metal lathe, I thought it was bad since it was troublesome to get the collet in place. It literally had to 'snap' and then held itself in the nut regardless of position. I almost returned the 'real' ER32 chuck to LMS as defective due to my own lack of knowledge of how a proper ER32 collet and nut were supposed to go together.

 

[leehljp]

I haven't used my ER collet set in years and vaguely remember this "snap". Thanks for this thread and reminder. I pulled my set out a month ago and looked it over. I had a small bit of rust on the outside of the chuck body and cleaned it off.

 

[Curly]

You are actually supposed to tip the edge of the collet into the Beall nut. If you look straight down into the nut from the thread side you will see there is an oval ledge that the groove on the collet slips under. It doesn't need forcing/snapping to make it fit.

 

[NJturner]

One thing I found with my Beall was that the collets don't 'snap' into the nut. There is a place the collet fits but will fall out on its own weight. Since the Beall was my only ER32 experience, I thought it was normal. I also found that the spec for Beall ER chucks is runout of 0.005". This is in the pre-Lee Valley days.

When I got a "Real" ER32 with my metal lathe, I thought it was bad since it was troublesome to get the collet in place. It literally had to 'snap' and then held itself in the nut regardless of position. I almost returned the 'real' ER32 chuck to LMS as defective due to my own lack of knowledge of how a proper ER32 collet and nut were supposed to go together.

I agree with Rick - my Beall collets do not 'snap' either. I have other collet chucks that definetely do, but not the Beall. I was at the MATE event in Manassas last week and spoke to the Stainless Steel BottleStopper people - they just introduced a new pretty beefy ER32 collet chuck to the market. I bought one in the 1 1/4 size and it is pretty nice, extremely little runout and it is well made. My Beall uses an adapter to get it to the 1 1/4 headstock thread size, making it a bit longer and a bit more difficult to keep dead on, so am going to be using the new one for a bit and see how it works. This is a chuck only, they do not sell the collets, so using the ones I have and they fit fine - and click!

 

[d_bondi]

Yes; As Kenny said; There is a specific load order for collet chucks.

1. Snap the collet into the nut. There is a ring inside the nut and it snaps into the groove in the side of the collet
2. Then thread the nut and collet into the chuck body.
3. Finally put the work piece into the collet and tighten.
4. When you loosen the nut; loosen until it tightens up. Keep turning until it snaps free. The ring and groove act to "eject" the collet from the chuck and free the work piece.

The good news is the nuts for a collet chuck have a standard thread. If you did not mess up the chuck threads, the nuts are easy to find in various guises. They can be found with hex head, castle, and grooved (not sure about names) configurations. Reach out to Rick and verify that he put the standard threads on the nut and chuck.

Thanks for the detailed response Randy.

Unfortunately, load order wasn't my issue, I am familiar with the proper use of the chuck.

The collet body is also now trash, the wrench/key holes are damaged from the brute force attempts to get the nut off and using the abrasive cutting wheel to cut the nut off cut deeply into the threads. I knew this going in. I have already purchased a replacement Beall from Lee Valley.

The chuck is/was a Beall, Rick made my kitless mandrels that I use in it and they are all awesome and safe and sound.

 

[d_bondi]

That's most unusual , ER32 , unless you grip undersized as mentioned above, are normally built like a brick outhouse.

Suggest you buy a replacement ER32 nut, a ball raced one for choice, and keep it as a spare. I note you are checking for runout but it looks ok on photo.

Lee Valley are great to deal with , even across the Atlantic !

Thanks Ian. The body is trashed as well. I purchased a replacement chuck from Lee Valley and have it already. I just recently learned about the "ball raced" nuts, I'll have to look for one of those.

 

[d_bondi]

One thing I found with my Beall was that the collets don't 'snap' into the nut. There is a place the collet fits but will fall out on its own weight. Since the Beall was my only ER32 experience, I thought it was normal. I also found that the spec for Beall ER chucks is runout of 0.005". This is in the pre-Lee Valley days.

When I got a "Real" ER32 with my metal lathe, I thought it was bad since it was troublesome to get the collet in place. It literally had to 'snap' and then held itself in the nut regardless of position. I almost returned the 'real' ER32 chuck to LMS as defective due to my own lack of knowledge of how a proper ER32 collet and nut were supposed to go together.

Thanks for the input Rick. I appreciate it. I have two ER32 collet chucks, one Beall and one PSI. For both, the collets do "snap" in.

 

[d_bondi]

I haven't used my ER collet set in years and vaguely remember this "snap". Thanks for this thread and reminder. I pulled my set out a month ago and looked it over. I had a small bit of rust on the outside of the chuck body and cleaned it off.

Thanks Hank. I had to cut and run last night so I haven't inspected the threads on the chuck and nut after cutting it off. I'll be doing this later today to try to determine the cause of failure.

 

[d_bondi]

You are actually supposed to tip the edge of the collet into the Beall nut. If you look straight down into the nut from the thread side you will see there is an oval ledge that the groove on the collet slips under. It doesn't need forcing/snapping to make it fit.

Hi Pete, this is exactly how my chuck nuts look and function. Thanks!

 

[d_bondi]

I agree with Rick - my Beall collets do not 'snap' either. I have other collet chucks that definetely do, but not the Beall. I was at the MATE event in Manassas last week and spoke to the Stainless Steel BottleStopper people - they just introduced a new pretty beefy ER32 collet chuck to the market. I bought one in the 1 1/4 size and it is pretty nice, extremely little runout and it is well made. My Beall uses an adapter to get it to the 1 1/4 headstock thread size, making it a bit longer and a bit more difficult to keep dead on, so am going to be using the new one for a bit and see how it works. This is a chuck only, they do not sell the collets, so using the ones I have and they fit fine - and click!

Thanks for the response/input Kevin, it is always appreciated.

I'll have to check in with Stainless Steel Bottle Stopper regarding their new chuck. I quickly checked their website, but didn't see any chucks. Maybe I'll give them a call on Monday. My spindle thread is only 1" x 8 TPI, (Jet Midi).

 

[Hippie3180]

So... my beloved 1"x8TPI Beall ER32 collet chuck seized up with my 5/8" collet in it and my @rherrell made mandrels are all 5/8" .

I have heard of these collet chuck getting cross threaded, and I don't think that is what happened with this one, maybe something got in the threads, I don't know. Until this event, I have had no issues with this chuck. I tried everything, force, lubrication, penetrating oil, heat, you name it, I could not get the collet nut off. I called Lee Valley which is who I purchased the chuck from and they offered me a replacement at a 15% discount and no charge for shipping. That felt more than fair so I ordered a replacement.

BUT... I wanted my 5/8" ER32 collet back, so I had to get medieval on it. I did get the collet back and I don't think it is damaged. Tomorrow morning I'll put it in the replacement chuck and check it for runout.

View attachment 383231

We had this happen with a collet, see if it's still under warranty. My son had to get a pipe wrench to get it loose, lost the chuck, was under warranty still..they replaced it. Most of our collets pop in there as they should, one does not. The one that doesn't is the problem child, we are sure to not over tighten, if it feel like it's cross threading never crank down on it….that leads to this issue. Ask me how I know.

 

[d_bondi]

We had this happen with a collet, see if it's still under warranty. My son had to get a pipe wrench to get it loose, lost the chuck, was under warranty still..they replaced it.

Hi Michele, and thanks!

I had purchased it a little over a year previously so unfortunately it was out of warranty. Lee Valley was great to work with though, they tried to help me with ways to get the nut off and then offered a 15% discount on a replacement. I did purchase the replacement from them.

 

[NJturner]

Thanks for the response/input Kevin, it is always appreciated.

I'll have to check in with Stainless Steel Bottle Stopper regarding their new chuck. I quickly checked their website, but didn't see any chucks. Maybe I'll give them a call on Monday. My spindle thread is only 1" x 8 TPI, (Jet Midi).

David - Yep, the chuck is not on the website yet - they just had a few at the show to do a 'pre' intro showing - they did have 1" and 11/4 inch models for sale. I looked at both, as I have two lathes that of course use different threads, which is why I have an adapter and they were pretty identical except for the thread diameter - both were equally heavily. The Stainless rep at the show said they would be on the site in a month or so, but depending on how quick they sold, might be available if you call them. They are located in Honesdale, PA so also US made.

 

[d_bondi]

David - Yep, the chuck is not on the website yet - they just had a few at the show to do a 'pre' intro showing - they did have 1" and 11/4 inch models for sale. I looked at both, as I have two lathes that of course use different threads, which is why I have an adapter and they were pretty identical except for the thread diameter - both were equally heavily. The Stainless rep at the show said they would be on the site in a month or so, but depending on how quick they sold, might be available if you call them. They are located in Honesdale, PA so also US made.

Good to know, thanks Kevin. Do you mind me asking how much the 1 1/4" you picked up cost?

 

[NJturner]

David - I must have lost the receipt somewhere during the show and I paid cash, but I seem to remember the chuck was around $50 or so….sorry I can't be more accurate.

 

[d_bondi]

David - I must have lost the receipt somewhere during the show and I paid cash, but I seem to remember the chuck was around $50 or so….sorry I can't be more accurate.

No worries, that is a rockin' deal!

 

[Penchant 4]

Have never, fortunately, experienced this locking up of the nut on the collet holder. Has anyone ever used anti-seize compound? Seems like it might be a bit of inexpensive insurance.

 

[NJturner]

No worries, that is a rockin' deal!

So I used the Stainless Steel Bottle Stopper Collet chuck for the first time today. Was a bit different experience than I am used to with my Beall and PSI collet chucks, not bad, but different. First thing I noticed was the collet definitely 'snapped' into the collet chuck nut. I used a 3/4 inch collet to grip one of my home cast pen blank rods (alumilite). With the Beall, I typically can hand tighten it enough to allow me to turn it without any tools - not the case with this chuck. As tight as I could get it by hand, the rod still spun in the collet. So I locked my headstock and then used the provided collet wrench to lock it down. Took a bit of pressure to get it fully locked - maybe because it's new, or I'm just not used to it, but it took a bit. I finished turning my pen body and went to remove it from the collet chuck. I locked my headstock and proceeded to use the collet wrench to loosen the collet - but it didn't work. The collet chuck turned and started to thread off the headstock. I gave it a good grip with my hand and tried again - but no dice. I started to think of you and wondered if I was going to have a major issue.

The collet chuck only has tooling to allow using the collet wrench on the collet chuck nut, there is no second tommy bar hole, nor a tommy bar provided. Instead the collet chuck body has two flats on it - on either side of the barrel roughly midway down its length. I got a wrench out and realized the flats were way bigger than my wrench. Hmmm. I measured the flat spacing with my calipers and found the flats to need a 1 3/8 inch wrench to fit around the collet body and match the flats spacing. I don't have any wrenches that big but I needed to get this off the lathe. So, ghetto fix - I wrapped the collet chuck body with duct tape pretty heavily and took a pair of waterpump pliers to the flats and used the provided collet wrench on the nut head, using the waterpump pliers to keep things from spinning. I got really lucky and didn't bung up my new chuck with the plier teeth and the collet nut came free.

Tomorrow, I go to Harbor freight and look to see if I can buy an open end wrench to fit this, or buy a larger flat edged adjustable wrench that will open this wide. I think I would have preferred a second tommy bar, or some type of knurling on the collet chuck body to help release things, but be prepared you will need something to get this chuck open. Deal breaker? No, but I would have wished that Stainless Steel Bottle Stoppers included the needed wrench. So, be prepared if you do buy this - you will need a second wrench unless they change this design.

 

[d_bondi]

So I used the Stainless Steel Bottle Stopper Collet chuck for the first time today. Was a bit different experience than I am used to with my Beall and PSI collet chucks, not bad, but different. First thing I noticed was the collet definitely 'snapped' into the collet chuck nut. I used a 3/4 inch collet to grip one of my home cast pen blank rods (alumilite). With the Beall, I typically can hand tighten it enough to allow me to turn it without any tools - not the case with this chuck. As tight as I could get it by hand, the rod still spun in the collet. So I locked my headstock and then used the provided collet wrench to lock it down. Took a bit of pressure to get it fully locked - maybe because it's new, or I'm just not used to it, but it took a bit. I finished turning my pen body and went to remove it from the collet chuck. I locked my headstock and proceeded to use the collet wrench to loosen the collet - but it didn't work. The collet chuck turned and started to thread off the headstock. I gave it a good grip with my hand and tried again - but no dice. I started to think of you and wondered if I was going to have a major issue.

The collet chuck only has tooling to allow using the collet wrench on the collet chuck nut, there is no second tommy bar hole, nor a tommy bar provided. Instead the collet chuck body has two flats on it - on either side of the barrel roughly midway down its length. I got a wrench out and realized the flats were way bigger than my wrench. Hmmm. I measured the flat spacing with my calipers and found the flats to need a 1 3/8 inch wrench to fit around the collet body and match the flats spacing. I don't have any wrenches that big but I needed to get this off the lathe. So, ghetto fix - I wrapped the collet chuck body with duct tape pretty heavily and took a pair of waterpump pliers to the flats and used the provided collet wrench on the nut head, using the waterpump pliers to keep things from spinning. I got really lucky and didn't bung up my new chuck with the plier teeth and the collet nut came free.

Tomorrow, I go to Harbor freight and look to see if I can buy an open end wrench to fit this, or buy a larger flat edged adjustable wrench that will open this wide. I think I would have preferred a second tommy bar, or some type of knurling on the collet chuck body to help release things, but be prepared you will need something to get this chuck open. Deal breaker? No, but I would have wished that Stainless Steel Bottle Stoppers included the needed wrench. So, be prepared if you do buy this - you will need a second wrench unless they change this design.

Hey there Kevin, thanks for sharing the story and I'm really glad you were able to get things apart without messing up the shiny new chuck. Plumbers channel locks are magical! That is really interesting about how the different chucks require different amount of force to hold the work piece.

I am lucky, my late father-in-law was a farmer, and their tools are simply next level size wise. I have a 18" adjustable crescent wrench (opens to 2 1/8") and a pair of 18" channel locks. I have only needed them a few times, but holy smokes, when you need them, Wow! These are just what he kept in his pickup toolbox. The tools in the shop/shed were crazy!

 

[NJturner]

Hey there Kevin, thanks for sharing the story and I'm really glad you were able to get things apart without messing up the shiny new chuck. Plumbers channel locks are magical! That is really interesting about how the different chucks require different amount of force to hold the work piece.

I am lucky, my late father-in-law was a farmer, and their tools are simply next level size wise. I have a 18" adjustable crescent wrench (opens to 2 1/8") and a pair of 18" channel locks. I have only needed them a few times, but holy smokes, when you need them, Wow! These are just what he kept in his pickup toolbox. The tools in the shop/shed were crazy!

Maybe I'll go to Tractor Supply instead of Harbor Freight....lol! I also dropped an email to the manufacturer - curious what they reply.

Kevin

 

[d_bondi]

Please let me know what you hear back.

 

[NJturner]

Please let me know what you hear back.

I got an extremely quick and helpful email back from Dan at Stainless Steel Bottle Stoppers - with a great explanation of the tooling and a phone number to call him. So I did! He spent almost an hour on the phone with me chatting about my thoughts on the chuck, the issues I had, and how things could be handled.

Seems first off, I was using a blank I acquired at the MATE show in the collet. Not a blank vendor I had used before so Dan suggested measuring it to see if it was truly the size of the collet I was using, and he hit it on the money - the blank was slightly undersized accounting for why the collet would not lock down. As for the flats versus tommy bars, he said the cost of machining has skyrocketed, and they felt that being able to use a crescent wrench to hold the chuck versus a less friendly set of dual tommy bars would be easier for users and cheaper on their wallets. I agreed, but suggested they might want to make the flats a small bit closer, allowing most any Crescent wrench to fit the flats versus its current size which is a slight bit over a standard crescent wrench capacity. He said they will take a good look at it and see if it's possible to reduce the flat dimension - as the one I bought was actually a pre-production run so change is possible on the production chucks. If not, they will provide some directions on how to address removing the chuck from the lathe. Since mine was pre-production, it didn't have instructions, and I guess I needed them!

All in all, a great call and AMAZING customer service! Dan tells me the chucks should be in production and up on the site for sale in a short bit - and considering my experiences with the collet chuck and the vendor's customer service, I highly recommend giving it a try. I like endings like this!

Kevin