Advice/Feedback needed on business logo

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
karlkuehn

karlkuehn

Banned
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
1,848
Location
Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA.
Hey all, I've been running thirteen different directions trying to get everything moving forward with the business. It's been really nice having the day job again to pay the bills, but I definitely want to keep moving forward with the Bezalel Woodcrafting thing, er at least as much as I can.

The progression from the shower-door steamy design thing has moved forward, but I want to get your opinions on what I have so far before I commit to a whole bunch of laser engraving.

There are a few of you that are familiar with where Bezalel comes from. In a nutshell, he was a character in the Old Testament of the Bible who was appointed during the time of Moses to build all of the interesting stuff that was needed for the tabernacle. The story is that God bestowed on Bezalel the gift of craftsmanship, and he's the one that built/managed the building of the Ark of the Covenant and many other things in the temple that needed building. Moses wasn't the handiest of guys, and the Lord sent him a helper that could actually understand plans and ideas.

The logo that I came up with for the business loosely reflects the design (as it is written in Exodus) of the Ark of the Covenant. On the Ark, there were two angels at either end, facing each other and extending their wings towards the middle. The various reproductions and interpretations since then are very elaborate, but I've been trying to reduce them down into something that I can use on a small scale.

Here's what I've got so far...this will be used at about 1 1/2" all the way down to 3/8" if I can make it work with the laser.

Any input would be appreciated, thanks a ton! I really like how the two angel wings come together in sorta the shape of a tree. The shower door isn't quite as elaborate, but the idea is there. :D

Logo_20080929_Master_Print.gif
 
Last edited:
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Interesting design. Aren't you glad you took that shower?

The history was good too. I am sure that few people would recognize the name or know the story. Are you planning on a black/white logo or colors? I have admired your castings since I first saw them and (in my opinion) you need color to tell your story--maybe white doves and bold colors for the rest?

Good luck.
Mark
 
Crap. I didn't really explain this too well. This particular version of the logo is going to be tiny and laser engraved. Once I get it fleshed out and applied once or twice, I'll be able to show you what I'm talking about.

The actual business logo, as Mark said, is going to be much more elaborate and colorized. What I was going for here is more of the insignia type of thing that you find on the bottom of fine china and stuff. Make sense?

There's a few things that I don't like about it thus far as well, but I wanted to run it by you guys to get feedback on the overall 'feel' of it, and the concept itself, as far as a circular logo. Gah...:D

hard to say what I mean. Thanks for the input, though, and I love the idea of the doves. :)
 
A word of warning. Non Judeo-Christians may be turned off by your logo. They will probably not get the Bezalel reference. Of course, if you don't care about their business, full speed ahead.
 
Karl,
Lou may be right, but it would not bother me. Until I read the story, the logo did not look like angels. All I saw were swooping lines upward. I would think the cross would draw more attention than the angels or the name. I started reading the Old Testament a few months ago and I forgot the story about Bezalel. I like the logo alot.
Ben
 
Karl,

I understand the complexities of designing a logo for lasering that may be anywhere from 1.5" to .375". You do need clean, uncomplicated lines. You may go through several line width changes and alterations before your final. I am currently in Youth Ministry and my last business logo also uitilized negative space in the way of a flying dove. My suggestion is to rethink the line of the hair/head of the angels. At first glance before I read the explantion I thought they were were ghosts. I'm impressed with the simplicity. The fact that the two most important elements, the cross and "woodcrafting" stand out in black clearly shows how important this is to you. This is really a well-thoughtout logo. Good Luck with it.
 
I didn't know what the Bezalel was a reference to until I read your explanation. I also didn't realize those were angels. I just thought it was an intersting design. I like it.

However, with that said, if this is a BUSINESS logo, I don't think the religious symbols belong in it. Even though I didn't know the meaning of the name and the angels got past me, the Cross was quite obvious. You may lose many customers becuase of the religous connection. Many people, especially those of other religions, will not want your prodcts if they have a religious symbol as part of the logo or may simply not shop your store (actual or web based) when they see the logo. It may not even be becuase they are offended or anthing. It may be simply because their first impression is it is a religous site/business. Of course, you may also get people who do shop your site because of the religious connection.

Looking at this strickly from a business standpoint, I would change the logo.
 
Are you selling product or a story with a picture?
I dont think customers will care about your logo or the story behind it.
It makes me think of stained glass windows in my church, not woodcraft (lets not get into the carpentry connection)
Youll be judged on the quality and price of your product and your ability to deliver what you promise, not on the quality of an overdesigned logo which is just too fussy and as such is not going to be instantly recognisable or remebered by anyone. For example, think Nike.
Your logo could be offensive and off putting to some potential customers and it could also make people think you only sell religious items thereby pigeon holing your appeal.
Its a nice picture with a story behind it, but I would reconsider its effectiveness as a company logo and name.
I have no wish to offend I assure you, Im simply offering my opinion based on many years of dealing with thousands of companies in many industries.
I think you could be wasting your money with this one.
regards, talbot
 
From a strict design standpoint the cross does stand out and make you focus on that losing the rest of the design.

I'd stick with something much more simple. Maybe just the Bezalel woodcrafting and the olive branches. It would be more brand identity than the whole angel/sheild coat of arms thing you have going on. In logo design simple is always better.
 
I'm in agreement that the religious symbolism may not be a good mix with the business approach. I would drop the angels/cross and incorporate the design of the "ark" as a focal point without making it obvious to the Bibblical references. Keep the name and the laurel motif.JMO
 
I have to agree with Lou and John. Taking John's adjustment, remove the cross in the center and leave the "T" alone. Where the cross was put a dove. I thought of a sunburst first but think that it would conflict with the angel's wings.

I like the design but agree that it will hurt you sales wise with the cross. Not many will recognize the angel design from the lid of the Ark. Anyway just my opinion so take it for what it is worth.

Mike
 
I'm a religious type myself (been an Espicopal priest for 35 years), and am obviously not put off by religious symbols, but I clearly hear what others are saying about the impact it may have with non-believers. If you want to retain the cross but use it in a more subtle way, why not substitute the "T" in "woodcrafting" with the cross?

Of course, bottom line is that people will buy your pens not because of your spiritual orientation, but because of the quality of the work. I remember the old joke about a man who was sitting next to a priest at a boxing match. One of the boxers crossed himself at the beginning of a round, and the man asked the priest, "Do you think that will help him, Father?"

The priest replied, "It will -- if he can fight."

Bottom line -- do what you love, and let others respond as they will.
Doug
 
I would ditch the cross, unless you are targeting a specific market. In which case you may lose a significant amount of sales. I respect ones right to choose their religion and pray as they want, but will not support something that is biased towards a certain group.

By the way, I love your website, it is so uncluttered.
 
I like it. I had no idea where Bezelel came from, in fact, I had something very opposite in mind, what time I spent thinking about it, which was not much. I don't know how well in will shrink down to less than half an inch. But at least for your business cards, etc, it is great.
 
I like it. I have had a pretty intricate logo reduced on a pen and a box before. Came out good. Worst case is send it out and see. BTW, I love that part of the Bible, and those passages about him.
 
I think the lines are a bit thin to be reduced well. A good rule of thumb is to show it to the scale you want on a computer screen. If you want it 3/8" diameter, show it that way on your monitor. If it looks garbled at that resolution, chances are good that it would be better to be cleaned up with bolder lines further apart.

I agree with others that religious symbolism is best left off of business logos. My opinion only.
 
Hmmm..I didn't know what the name meant either. Sounds evil, like the name of a dragon, vampire or medieval killer to me! Regardless though, it just doesn't matter to me. I am not religious and I am not offended in any way by it. I wouldn't care if you were religious, or not, black or white, whatever you are, as long as you have some morals...if I see something you have and I want it, I'll buy it. The name of your business, and/or a logo such as this would not sway me either way is what I'm saying. It's just not offensive. It's a cool design, I like it, but I would not hardly notice it if I was shopping your site. I mostly pay attention to the meat and potatoes...but isn't that what matters most?!?!
 
I like it.

There's no reason to hide the candle under the bushel, as someone once said. ;)

I think it will look really good small and engraved. Personally, I would soften up the seraphim wings to make them look more feathery and less triangular. I look forward to seeing it engraved.
 
Thanks for all the input guys!

I've been checking back in the last few days in between going from shop to shop and trying to find some sleep in between.

There's so many opinions that I'd love to reply to individually, but I'll keep this a little more general, explaining my ideas, thoughts and goals as best I can with regards to where this business has come from and where it's going. Of course, since it's me, it's going to run long (ramble alert), and since I've been gone for the longest months of my life, it's gonna run extra long, I'm sure - quit reading now if you're time, textually or focus challenged. :p Those of you that know me and love/hate reading me know how to proceed, those of you that don't know me, dive in at your own peril. If you love it, thank you! If you hate it, I understand, no worries, look for my stuff in SOYP for maybe a better picture, as it were.

Those of you that can't figure out the love/hate things, go turn a pen and post a picture! Bottom line, we love looking at everyone's stuff, so you can't go wrong there, right? hehe :) Decide the love/hate thing later. At least you can sell the pen if nothing else.

There's a lot of key issues addressed in the above responses, and I'll try to break it down as well as I can

Aesthetics:
I agree, they aren't the most elegant angels ever. No matter how much time I spend on the wings, they're too pointy and pokey. I like the idea of the 'inside' picture making the shape of a tree, but at best it's a crappy symbol of an evergreen, which I hardly ever work with, so I think I'll ditch that aspect of the logo.

As far as the angels' heads, I agree, they're sorta 'Gumby', and I actually added the 'Scream' ghost face to them once while I was messing with them. With the wispy, trailing 'tails', the sharp wings and the hooded heads, they're more like grim reapers than angels.

My idea of angels are not the namby-pamby golden-curly, blue-eyed chubby chunks that you see on the traditional stained glass and Hallmark cards; these dudes are tough. They are the warriors of the Lord, and I'll eventually portray them as such. :)

In my mind they're built like the guys on UFC, tough and solid, battle-scarred, confident and ripped. Gabriel, Michael, Uriel, Raphael, these guys are the best of the best.

The way I see it, those traditional pictures of them standing/floating there with pink wings, weird little sticks/staffs and some goofy halo just hovering around their heads just don't do it for me. The guys in those pictures would get their asses handed to them by any self-respecting demon, and I'm pretty sure that God doesn't have a bunch of pretty boys guarding the gates.

The vision that I have is of some real bad-asses, wearing the armor of God, wielding a pair of flaming hand-and-a-half swords, stepping on the neck of Satan's legions, just begging for a chance to return evil to the abyss.

These boys are the Archangels, the superior high-ranking angels. They don't wake up late or show up for work without their armor or anything. That's what I'm looking for, artistically anyways.

I'll eventually equate that vision into the logo when I have time to flesh it out artistically.

Funtionality:
We're still working on the laser at work, finding out what it can do, and what kind of jigs I have to build to make it work the way I want it to.

As far as shrinking the image, it scales for crap...I gotta work on that. I made it big, thinking along the lines of a picture - higher resolution makes it better for shrinking an image.

Unfortunately, the lines I have on the current logo are too skinny to shrink down without losing them almost altogether. I pretty much have to remake the whole thing.

The upside is, I really like the whole premise of what I have, although I'm going to simplify the olive branch and somehow incorporate the doves, that's a great idea.

Theology:
As far as committing to a religion in my business and the potential for losing customers, I'm not concerned at all. God gave me this business, and while I've done everything I can (active and/or passive) to screw it up, ultimately His plan for me will come to fruition. If people don't buy my stuff because I'm a Christian, then that's what's supposed to happen.

The cross in the logo isn't going anywhere. This whole business, name and all is based on the idea that God blesses people in different ways, all according to his need for workers...what I love about Bezalel is that he was given the gift of craftsmanship. I'm probably never going to be a missionary...hot jungle, public speaking, lotsa sweat, eating bugs, I don't think I'm cut out for that.

What I love is making stuff, wood stuff especially. I'm also really good with computers, programming, web-design and such, although none of you get to see that yet. (I promise, when I eventually launch the website, you'll see, really! hehe). All of my life I've been working in a bunch of different disciplines excelling at some, making due in others, but the overall picture I have of my life is that there's something great waiting to happen.

Ultimately, I was given a stellar set of parents. They didn't work very well together, my mom is super creative and my dad really excels at business and work ethics.

Taking the best of both of their worlds has been a lifetime process for me, and I'm happy about where I'm at. I'm no where near successful in the eyes of the world yet, but I'm rich in spirit and ability, and I wouldn't trade places with anyone for anything.

Anyways, the long and skinny of it is that I'm not ashamed of being a Christian, and many of the renowned craftsman in the past have publicly associated themselves with the cross. I'd be proud (and humbled, given the level of talent that they've shown) to be counted with them, for conviction of belief if not quality of craft.

Anyone who doesn't want to buy from me because they don't like my stuff, that's fine. Anyone who judges me and my product because I have a scratched fish or bold cross in my logo, well...the book that I read tells me that I'll be blessed for it.

If I'm ever actively persecuted or estranged because of my logo design, I'll probably redesign it. That cross can get real big, and if I'm known for nothing else in this life, I'd be happy to be known for my faith. :)

I really appreciate all the time and energy you guys put into helping me with this, 'nuff said.

:)

Karl
 
I don't understand, I like your website. It is rare that you see a site now that isn't covered in ads and other useless junk. Your site is so bright and airy the way it is.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom