Add another stupid question or two

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Lew

Lew

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It seems like every question I ask here is so basic that it is embarrassing for me and the people who read them. But anyway. I have thought about making a segmented pen with vertical (or longitudinal) stripes. I have made pens with horizontal stripes out of all kinds of different material. But I can't really find anything specific on the site about the process for vertical stripes. I have seen some comments about being careful when drilling or I'll come out with out-of-kilter stripes.

The basic idea I believe is to take a blank, cut it lengthwise, add whatever to it and glue it back together. Do the same to the other side. This process should give 4 stripes. What if I want more or fewer stripes? To have say 3 stripes, do I cut the blank to round and but a kerf every 120 degrees to the center and fill that with the stripe material? Or would 3 stripes look ridiculous?
For more than 4 do I just but the blank more than once on each side? I'm not really looking for advanced technique like curving the stripes.

I have been successful so far in making some pens that my friends and acquaintances are willing to shell out some money for them (just enough to cover the expense of the materials). I see, though, pens like in the recent contest that just blow my mind at how precise and beautiful they are. I don't expect to get there soon, but I would like to start the journey.
 
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If you want to do more than 4 stripes ( that would be a 90* separation between stripes ) you have to develop an appropriate technique and have the appropriate equipment. . Even for doing 3 stripes ( 120* separation ) some "special" techniques could be used.

For two and four stripes you can start with a blank of square cross-section.
For other cases ( say 3 stripes or 5 stripes or 6 stripes ) I think you should start with a blank and has been already turned round.

The techniques you use will depend on what saw you will use.

We can't go into all possibilities here. . I am sure you could get help with the techniques once you specify how many stripes you want to go for.

Getting the angular separations accurate is the key to making an attractive looking pen.

Whatever you want to do, do NOT be afraid to ask questions. . There is no such thing as a stupid or silly question.
If you have any question to ask, you can be sure that there is somebody else besides yourself who would be interested in the answer .
 
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Nobody is going to give you any grief for what you perceive as stupid questions, we were all beginners at one time. Longitudinal stripes, though they look simple, can be difficult. If I want the number of stripes to be different than either 4 or 8, I turn the blank round before cutting the slots. I cut them either on my table saw or router table, with the help of jigs. Jigs are a must for segmenting, you won't get far without them. You have to mark the round blanks with a reference point at the appropriate degree, for example 120 degrees for a triple stripped blank.
 
Lew,
Here's a couple of pictures of my table saw jig with a cutoff pen blank in it. Front holds a blank at 45 degrees and back holds it flat. All other angles are cut in the front with round blank. I just make a little reference mark and line it up to mark on the blank.
FD631DA4-F4DB-4D29-A109-A6AD1557854A.jpeg
B7133274-193F-483F-BFE8-116654B8AD9E.jpeg
 

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Curly said:
There is this method for cutting thin wedges that you glue together. It could be set up for quite a few possibilities.


Unfortunately most of Branden's pictures were hosted offsite and are no longer around to shore you how nice the pens were. This link should give you an idea though.
#14
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For those reading - Branden's article is excellent and 'Must Reading" for pen segmenting; many applications. Thanks for the link Pete. ;)
 
The key is precision. You will not get any perfection with less than precision tools. Patience is a plus!

You could get lucky like I did - The first one was perfect, the next 7 were not! Gave up after that and just settled for the first one.
 
Segmenting is a great way to enhance any blank and the sky is the limit when it comes to designs. As mentioned though it does take precision and jigs are definitely the way to achieve accuracy. Even after all said and done the need to be able to drill dead center of your design will make or break the quality of your blank. Then glue up is also important because when you start adding materials such as acrylics and metals the adhesion is important.

Now you mention odd number of segments, this is abit tricky because too many will overwhelm the blank and such a small diameter canvas it can get cumbersome. so your details need to match. Now there is a few methods of just making slots and infilling them with material to match the kerf. I do this a couple ways. One is a tablesaw and another is with a router mounted on my lathe. Another method is to cut all the way through a blank but it is more likely you will use a board or larger piece than a pen blank because so much waste will happen from the kerf of the blade. But you use either a tablesaw or bandsaw and set the angle of the blade or table(depending on what you choose) Now what basically you are doing is cutting staves. the amount of staves needed to complete a circle will determine the angle of your cuts. Again though this is best done with a jig to hold the pieces and to make repetition cuts. This is an entry level answer. To be more specific would require knowing what you want and what tools you have available and knowing your ability. Good luck
 
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KenB259 said:
Lew,
Here's a couple of pictures of my table saw jig with a cutoff pen blank in it. Front holds a blank at 45 degrees and back holds it flat. All other angles are cut in the front with round blank. I just make a little reference mark and line it up to mark on the blank. View attachment 304647View attachment 304648
Click to expand...
Outstanding jig. thanks for the photos.
 
Lew said:
The basic idea I believe is to take a blank, cut it lengthwise, add whatever to it and glue it back together. Do the same to the other side. This process should give 4 stripes. What if I want more or fewer stripes? To have say 3 stripes, do I cut the blank to round and but a kerf every 120 degrees to the center and fill that with the stripe material? Or would 3 stripes look ridiculous?
For more than 4 do I just but the blank more than once on each side? I'm not really looking for advanced technique like curving the stripes.
Click to expand...
4 would be relatively easy, 8 just a bit more complicated; A jig like Ken has will help you get 8 sides and then split the middle with precise measuring and add the stripe in the kerf.

6 sides would need a different jig.

Mark, and I think another person or two, uses an indexing wheel on the lathe. The blank is added to the lathe, a cutting/slitting blade is added to a saw to run from back to the front to cut a slit in the blank; the indexing wheel allows you to rotate the prescribed degrees for the next slit.

Then, as Pete posted - wedges . . .

One other pieces of advice that may or may not work for you: What do you see in your mind's eye? How do you picture it being done? Most every artist "sees" something in his (or her) mind and moves forward on that. It is best to start here, even if it fails. Is it a major failure, or is it something that requires a minor or moderate adjustment? Can the adjustment be made with precision, or does it need a major revision? The best creativeness begins there - in the mind. There are different ways to accomplish stripes - with a jig as Ken's is (and mine), or with an indexing wheel and slitting the blank on the lathe, or with wedges as Pete (aka Curly) noted, or maybe another. Start with the one that jumps into your mind's eye . . . that you can "picture" in your mind.
 
leehljp said:
4 would be relatively easy, 8 just a bit more complicated; A jig like Ken has will help you get 8 sides and then split the middle with precise measuring and add the stripe in the kerf.

6 sides would need a different jig.

Mark, and I think another person or two, uses an indexing wheel on the lathe. The blank is added to the lathe, a cutting/slitting blade is added to a saw to run from back to the front to cut a slit in the blank; the indexing wheel allows you to rotate the prescribed degrees for the next slit.

Then, as Pete posted - wedges . . .

One other pieces of advice that may or may not work for you: What do you see in your mind's eye? How do you picture it being done? Most every artist "sees" something in his (or her) mind and moves forward on that. It is best to start here, even if it fails. Is it a major failure, or is it something that requires a minor or moderate adjustment? Can the adjustment be made with precision, or does it need a major revision? The best creativeness begins there - in the mind. There are different ways to accomplish stripes - with a jig as Ken's is (and mine), or with an indexing wheel and slitting the blank on the lathe, or with wedges as Pete (aka Curly) noted, or maybe another. Start with the one that jumps into your mind's eye . . . that you can "picture" in your mind.
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6 sides doesn't require a different jig, that's why I turn blanks round for all other than 4 or 8 stripes. Just a clarification.
 
Lew as you see there are a few of us here that love to do segmenting work and yes we all can post many photos of our work as I did here and many have seen these before but the point is we may use different methods to get there but it is basically the same results. Now even within those stripes you can do more segmenting work such as chevrons, angled cuts or even just layers or in my case I do dots. I use an indexing wheel on my lathe and also as I mentioned I mainly use a jig I made that allows the router to be used in conjunction with the lathe. The advantage here is it allows me to do dots as I shown in a photo. I am currently making a blank that has both dots and stripes that I hope to finish one of these days. Here is an older thread that explains the jig and shows how it is used. You can also do faceting with this jig.
https://www.penturners.org/threads/my-jig.104253/

Just would like to insert another method that I sort of use to make pen blanks and can easily make blanks with stripes is attach stripes to a tube and cast the entire blank and this fills in the cavities and you can do even more designs. I do this when doing curve lines and other things.

Now as with any tools used you need to understand them and know how to use them safely. Just because you see jigs and or pens with fancy segmenting it takes skil to get there and as I said care when using tools. These blanks are small to handle and require precision but all are doable and maybe you have or will come up with your own method the more you get into segmenting. It really is a nice aspect of pen making. Good luck and ask questions. Love to see what you come up with. Now for some photos.
 

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I'm also struggling a bit with this task at the moment, and I was curious what kind of ideas were here, so I'm glad someone asked, if you hadn't I probably would have.

At the moment my biggest problem (and I think I've solved it in the last week) is my band saw. I think I maybe was buying the wrong blades before, the old blade was wandering and not making clean cuts even though it was brand new, and causing all kinds of heck. It was so bad I took a chunk out of one of the jigs I built for my band saw when the blade wandered.

I got a new 14 TPI Raker 3/8" saw blade from Grizzly, and it's made a marked improvement on how my band saw performs. So far, everything cuts in nice straight lines as I expected.

I don't have a table saw as of yet, so I have some limitations on how I can do segmenting, but I'm managing with what I have.

Horizontal and bias segmenting have gone well, but I really need to get a better grip on these vertical/longitudinal cuts/segments. I have a design I want to make that demands this style, so jumping in is required at some point!
 
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jttheclockman said:
Lew as you see there are a few of us here that love to do segmenting work and yes we all can post many photos of our work as I did here and many have seen these before but the point is we may use different methods to get there but it is basically the same results. Now even within those stripes you can do more segmenting work such as chevrons, angled cuts or even just layers or in my case I do dots. I use an indexing wheel on my lathe and also as I mentioned I mainly use a jig I made that allows the router to be used in conjunction with the lathe. The advantage here is it allows me to do dots as I shown in a photo. I am currently making a blank that has both dots and stripes that I hope to finish one of these days. Here is an older thread that explains the jig and shows how it is used. You can also do faceting with this jig.
https://www.penturners.org/threads/my-jig.104253/

Just would like to insert another method that I sort of use to make pen blanks and can easily make blanks with stripes is attach stripes to a tube and cast the entire blank and this fills in the cavities and you can do even more designs. I do this when doing curve lines and other things.

Now as with any tools used you need to understand them and know how to use them safely. Just because you see jigs and or pens with fancy segmenting it takes skil to get there and as I said care when using tools. These blanks are small to handle and require precision but all are doable and maybe you have or will come up with your own method the more you get into segmenting. It really is a nice aspect of pen making. Good luck and ask questions. Love to see what you come up with. Now for some photos.
Click to expand...
John, Thanks for all the info. I looked at your jig and it seems straightforward enough. As with most everything I have ever experienced, I can figure things out eventually on my own, but it is so much faster and easier when someone with knowledge shares it and sets me on the right track. I know it will take some time to get this down, but at least now I have a starting point. Thanks again. An beautiful work by the way!
 
I say this to Lew and to anyone else reading this thread, welcome to the world of segmenting and we all look forward to new ideas and methods. As I mentioned the sky is the limit in designs and ways of doing things. To me this has always been a fascinating aspect of blank making and I only wish I can dedicate more time to it for I have so many ideas. My problem is I find some time to start these projects but can not complete because other things come up. I really had an ambitious plan a couple months ago to get 30 some pens done within a month or two but things went sideways and I really have not been able to complete many of them and they lay in various stages of being done. I do promise at some time I will get completed. But in the mean time I always enjoy looking at what others are doing and segmenting is a favorite subject of mine. Do not be afraid to try new things and so what if you fail. Try again and learn from the mistakes. Maybe you will be the one to come up with that new design that sets the penturning world on fire and everyone wants to try such as the Celtic knot or that Gisi look. Come one, come all and join us.
 
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Curly said:
There is a wealth of information on all subjects of pen turning in the Library including segmenting. Easy to access from the Home page under General Announcements. I'll add the link here.

IAP Library Menu of Tutorials (Last Update 6-26-2024)

IAP Library Menu of Tutorials (Last Update 6-26-2024) Search All Current Library Resources View Latest Additions - Last 6 Months CATEGORIES
www.penturners.org
Click to expand...
I looked through the info on this site and didn't find what I was looking for. Probably didn't spend enough time to explore it thoroughly.
 
KenB259 said:
Lew,
Here's a couple of pictures of my table saw jig with a cutoff pen blank in it. Front holds a blank at 45 degrees and back holds it flat. All other angles are cut in the front with round blank. I just make a little reference mark and line it up to mark on the blank. View attachment 304647View attachment 304648
Click to expand...
This lurking thing is really paying dividends! Thanks Ken for sharing. I really like that sled. I had been playing around trying to make one for my bandsaw, and I never thought to make one for my table saw. I like how you can cut round or square on your jig. Judging by the placement of the toggle clamps, I'm guessing you don't cut all the way through the blank? If so, do you use a thin kerf blade, and then cut your inserts to a specific thickness based on the blade kerf? OK, this is not lurking, it's interrogation. Sorry. :)
 
KMCloonan said:
This lurking thing is really paying dividends! Thanks Ken for sharing. I really like that sled. I had been playing around trying to make one for my bandsaw, and I never thought to make one for my table saw. I like how you can cut round or square on your jig. Judging by the placement of the toggle clamps, I'm guessing you don't cut all the way through the blank? If so, do you use a thin kerf blade, and then cut your inserts to a specific thickness based on the blade kerf? OK, this is not lurking, it's interrogation. Sorry. :)
Click to expand...
That is what I did. At the time, I was living in Japan and had access to 150mm diameter blades that had .9mm and 1mm and 1.2mm (carbide) kerfs, which were very helpful for stripes like this. I brought my Japanese saw home with me and a bunch of blades to last a while.
 
KMCloonan said:
This lurking thing is really paying dividends! Thanks Ken for sharing. I really like that sled. I had been playing around trying to make one for my bandsaw, and I never thought to make one for my table saw. I like how you can cut round or square on your jig. Judging by the placement of the toggle clamps, I'm guessing you don't cut all the way through the blank? If so, do you use a thin kerf blade, and then cut your inserts to a specific thickness based on the blade kerf? OK, this is not lurking, it's interrogation. Sorry. :)
Click to expand...
I don't cut all the way through, just shy of halfway. Infill matches kerf. I do have a thin kerf blade on, its kerf is .102.
 
KenB259 said:
Lew,
Here's a couple of pictures of my table saw jig with a cutoff pen blank in it. Front holds a blank at 45 degrees and back holds it flat. All other angles are cut in the front with round blank. I just make a little reference mark and line it up to mark on the blank. View attachment 304647View attachment 304648
Click to expand...
Ken, I've got to tell you that the more I look at your jig, the more impressed I am with its simplicity and apparent effectiveness. I'm going to build or modify a sled to be like the one you show and give it a try. Thanks for sharing this.
 
Lew said:
Ken, I've got to tell you that the more I look at your jig, the more impressed I am with its simplicity and apparent effectiveness. I'm going to build or modify a sled to be like the one you show and give it a try. Thanks for sharing this.
Click to expand...
You're welcome. It is pretty simple and effective. Let me know how it goes.
 
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