acrylic blank - pits or bubbles - worth saving?

[underdog]

I aquired an acrylic blank a month or two back. It had a few cracks on one end, so I used the other end for a Sierra tube.

Tonight I turned it down, and when I got to the desired diameter, discovered myriad voids. Whether they are small bubbles or small chipout, I can't quite tell. I lean toward bubbles since it didn't have that tell tale chatter when it chips.

I tried filling them up with CA glue, but it looks like it just won't fill up. Is it worth fooling with? Or shall I just turn it down to the tube and start over?

 

[ElMostro]

I aquired an acrylic blank a month or two back. It had a few cracks on one end, so I used the other end for a Sierra tube.

Tonight I turned it down, and when I got to the desired diameter, discovered myriad voids. Whether they are small bubbles or small chipout, I can't quite tell. I lean toward bubbles since it didn't have that tell tale chatter when it chips.

I tried filling them up with CA glue, but it looks like it just won't fill up. Is it worth fooling with? Or shall I just turn it down to the tube and start over?

The short answer is turn it to the tube or easier yet if you have additional tubes just toss the thing all together.

Now the long answer: You already put CA on it so this won't help for this one but in the future here is what you can do. The reason the pinholes are so noticeable is bec as you sand they fill with the greyish dust which now highlights the pinholes. So in the future if you notice you have small pinholes on a blank once you have turned it to size do your normal sanding sequence but once you do your last sanding and the pinholes are filled with the dust apply some "Transtint" dye a similar color of the blank to a piece of paper towel and apply it to the blank while hand turning, you may have to do this more than once but the goal is the dye the dust in the pin holes. Let it dry and than apply a CA finish to seal it all in. I have done this in the past and it has worked but it's a bit of work so I would only do it if I really "have to save" the blank...if I have extra tubes or similar blanks it is easier just to start fresh.
Eugene.

 

[underdog]

No extra tubes, although I could get some. The blank mostly has a nice look to it, but in addition to the pits, it has a big clear spot that shows my ugly paint job on the tube/blank.

I don't have transtint dyes either.

I'm thinking it's time to order some decent acrylic and start over.

 

[joefyffe]

No extra tubes, although I could get some. The blank mostly has a nice look to it, but in addition to the pits, it has a big clear spot that shows my ugly paint job on the tube/blank.

I don't have transtint dyes either.

I'm thinking it's time to order some decent acrylic and start over.

I'm thinking you are right!:frown:

 

[ed4copies]

No extra tubes, although I could get some. The blank mostly has a nice look to it, but in addition to the pits, it has a big clear spot that shows my ugly paint job on the tube/blank.

I don't have transtint dyes either.

I'm thinking it's time to order some decent acrylic and start over.

Interestingly, in over 20 years of making acrylic pens I never saw holes in pen blanks.

NOW, however, I see them from time to time in the blanks that are sold to us. Is this a function of just seeing MANY more blanks than I did before? OR, are the manufacturers now selling the blanks that come from the outer perimeter of the sheet (Which have ALWAYS had voids, but we always considered that "waste area")?

Yes, Eugene and the other pen blank makers will have some small bubbles after casting and I agree completely with his solutions, stated above. But there has always been a difference in "expectation level" when the pen blank is commercially made acrylic.

SHOULD we expect "perfect" blanks from manufactured product?

What do you think?

Secondary question: There are a lot of cheap acrylic blanks available now, too. Do you EXPECT a failure rate when you buy the blanks for under $3?

 

[ugrad]

SHOULD we expect "perfect" blanks from manufactured product?

What do you think?

Secondary question: There are a lot of cheap acrylic blanks available now, too. Do you EXPECT a failure rate when you buy the blanks for under $3?

Yes, to the first, if it is a commercial blank, then it should be fit for purpose, if the seller had a clause that said bubbles/voids are inevitable sooner or later then I would avoid them, however if they said they would replace the blank and carriage then I would still use them.

I wouldn't expect a failure rate for blanks at any price I paid, If someone is selling blanks they should be fit for purpose or should get another supplier. It's the same for any product with me. The best measure of a good supplier is what they will do to rectify a problem with an item they have sold. If it costs them money to rectify it then they will soon find a better supplier.

regards
Peter

 

[InvisibleMan]

Bubbles will happen from time to time, but hopefully the process of making the blank makes them the exception rather than the rule. Bubbles are evil. I hate 'em.

 

[ed4copies]

SHOULD we expect "perfect" blanks from manufactured product?

What do you think?

Secondary question: There are a lot of cheap acrylic blanks available now, too. Do you EXPECT a failure rate when you buy the blanks for under $3?

Yes, to the first, if it is a commercial blank, then it should be fit for purpose, if the seller had a clause that said bubbles/voids are inevitable sooner or later then I would avoid them, however if they said they would replace the blank and carriage then I would still use them.

I wouldn't expect a failure rate for blanks at any price I paid, If someone is selling blanks they should be fit for purpose or should get another supplier. It's the same for any product with me. The best measure of a good supplier is what they will do to rectify a problem with an item they have sold. If it costs them money to rectify it then they will soon find a better supplier.

regards
Peter

OR, alternatively the supplier can control the cost of the failures by eliminating international shipments.

An option several have adopted.

 

[ElMostro]

Just to clarify, the blank in question was not one of my blanks, I was just offering an option if Jim really wanted to save the blank, so my short answer still stands "toss it and start over". I would add to that, contact the vendor and ask for a replacement.

To answers Ed's questions,

1. Yes, I think the customer should expect a perfect blank regardless if it is from a large manufacturer or a small manufacturer. And if there is a "manufacturing issue" with the blank then the vendor should resolve it to the customer's satisfaction.

2. Price doesn't really matter, a $2 pen blank should be manufactured with the same assurance as a $100 blank; the customer will get a finished pen from the blank.
The reason some blanks are more expensive than others is generally bec of the production costs (materials/time) involved NOT bec you will DEFINITELY get a pen out of the expensive blank and MAYBE you'll get a pen out of the economical blank.

Now, I have sold sell a few blanks over the past few years and I have had an occasional customer contact me having issues with a blank and of those who contacted me reference the issues there has only been one case that after sending various replacements the customer was not completely satisfied.

Eugene

 

[ed4copies]

Here's my thinking process, Eugene. When I made and sold a lot of pens, I can't recall paying less than $3 a blank and often a good deal more---nearly all were commercially produced resins or "stone". So I accepted that price level as equating with good quality.

NOW, there are manufacturers who offer blanks that are cheaper than this. Am I "entitled" to expect every blank to be flawless? If so, why is the price lower?
Over the years I have come to believe you usually take some risk of failure when you choose to buy "cheaper". Is this not the "prevailing wisdom" any more?

I am sincerely interested in what people think about this, as it will affect my choice of products now and in the future. I have found that "cheap sells". And we have not had objections about quality.

 

[ElMostro]

Here's my thinking process, Eugene. When I made and sold a lot of pens, I can't recall paying less than $3 a blank and often a good deal more---nearly all were commercially produced resins or "stone". So I accepted that price level as equating with good quality.

NOW, there are manufacturers who offer blanks that are cheaper than this. Am I "entitled" to expect every blank to be flawless? If so, why is the price lower?
Over the years I have come to believe you usually take some risk of failure when you choose to buy "cheaper". Is this not the "prevailing wisdom" any more?

I am sincerely interested in what people think about this, as it will affect my choice of products now and in the future. I have found that "cheap sells". And we have not had objections about quality.

Ed, "cheap" (I like economical better) should not mean that you run the risk of NOT having the product meet expectations. When I am not making blanks I do flat woodworking for fun. I have purchased LieNelson hand planes and they perform flawlessly out of the box I have also bought some "cheap" hand planes that performed horribly out of the box but after 6-10 hours of flattening and filing the body, replacing and sharpening an after market blade and lubricating it the "cheap" plane at 1/4 the price did almost as good a job as the LieNelson the difference was 6-10 hours of elbow grease. Question is; would I rather save some $ and invest 6-8 hours or save the time and invest the extra $? You will get different answers depending you you ask.

A $3 blank doesn't mean it's a bad blank it's just that the production cost is more economical and the advantage of "mass production" allows for a reduced price. Some beginners have difficulty turning certain "plastics", it's not the blank's fault it is the inexperience of the beginner that may be causing the problem so some may choose a more "forgiving" (albeit more expensive) material just to make sure the end up with a pen. But in the end the price of the blank should not determine IF the customer will have their expectations met, it should not be hit and miss.

 

[ed4copies]

Thank you!! I appreciate your feedback.

 

[Jim Burr]

Jim, as you order pen kits, try to order a few extra tubes...2-3, only a few cents apiece and well worth it when you are ordering $20-50 worth of kits!

 

[airborne_r6]

Interestingly, in over 20 years of making acrylic pens I never saw holes in pen blanks.

NOW, however, I see them from time to time in the blanks that are sold to us. Is this a function of just seeing MANY more blanks than I did before? OR, are the manufacturers now selling the blanks that come from the outer perimeter of the sheet (Which have ALWAYS had voids, but we always considered that "waste area")?

Yes, Eugene and the other pen blank makers will have some small bubbles after casting and I agree completely with his solutions, stated above. But there has always been a difference in "expectation level" when the pen blank is commercially made acrylic.

SHOULD we expect "perfect" blanks from manufactured product?

What do you think?

Secondary question: There are a lot of cheap acrylic blanks available now, too. Do you EXPECT a failure rate when you buy the blanks for under $3?

I expect a failure rate from everything that I purchase. It is simply part of manufacturing. Everything cannot always be perfect all the time. However, when I pay more for something I expect a lower failure rate, whether that rate comes from better manufacturing processes or better QC pulling the bad items is irrelevant to me.

As far as choosing suppliers, an occasional bad product, with a good customer service behind it, will keep me buying that product from that supplier. When I start getting higher rates of bad products, even with good customer service, it becomes too much of a hassle and I will start looking to either replace the product or the supplier or both.

As far as blanks. Price does play a role in my expectation. If I am buying a more expensive blank I will usually buy only the number I need, unless I don't have time for screw ups, either from the material or more likely on my end, because I expect the higher priced blank to be adequate. If I am buying cheap blanks I buy several, I still don't really expect them to fail but, but if one does I don't care as much and I have another waiting, and if it doesn't, I have more pens.

That said, even from cheap blanks, I expect a low failure rate. I am a medical student and don't have very much free time. The last pens I made were over two months from drill and glue up to turn and a couple of them still don't have the finish on them from the beginning of October. A failed blank as I am turning it will literally set me back a couple months.

As one of your customers, I hope this helps, and, FWIW I have only ever had one blank with a problem such that I couldn't use it.

 

[ugrad]

OR, alternatively the supplier can control the cost of the failures by eliminating international shipments.

An option several have adopted.

Yes they could do that, but they are probably MickyMouse suppliers anyway, if they were decent suppliers they would back up their products. Where one supplier pulls out of a market another one takes up the slack, usually.

 

[ed4copies]

Interestingly, in over 20 years of making acrylic pens I never saw holes in pen blanks.

NOW, however, I see them from time to time in the blanks that are sold to us. Is this a function of just seeing MANY more blanks than I did before? OR, are the manufacturers now selling the blanks that come from the outer perimeter of the sheet (Which have ALWAYS had voids, but we always considered that "waste area")?

Yes, Eugene and the other pen blank makers will have some small bubbles after casting and I agree completely with his solutions, stated above. But there has always been a difference in "expectation level" when the pen blank is commercially made acrylic.

SHOULD we expect "perfect" blanks from manufactured product?

What do you think?

Secondary question: There are a lot of cheap acrylic blanks available now, too. Do you EXPECT a failure rate when you buy the blanks for under $3?

I expect a failure rate from everything that I purchase. It is simply part of manufacturing. Everything cannot always be perfect all the time. However, when I pay more for something I expect a lower failure rate, whether that rate comes from better manufacturing processes or better QC pulling the bad items is irrelevant to me.

As far as choosing suppliers, an occasional bad product, with a good customer service behind it, will keep me buying that product from that supplier. When I start getting higher rates of bad products, even with good customer service, it becomes too much of a hassle and I will start looking to either replace the product or the supplier or both.

As far as blanks. Price does play a role in my expectation. If I am buying a more expensive blank I will usually buy only the number I need, unless I don't have time for screw ups, either from the material or more likely on my end, because I expect the higher priced blank to be adequate. If I am buying cheap blanks I buy several, I still don't really expect them to fail but, but if one does I don't care as much and I have another waiting, and if it doesn't, I have more pens.

That said, even from cheap blanks, I expect a low failure rate. I am a medical student and don't have very much free time. The last pens I made were over two months from drill and glue up to turn and a couple of them still don't have the finish on them from the beginning of October. A failed blank as I am turning it will literally set me back a couple months.

As one of your customers, I hope this helps, and, FWIW I have only ever had one blank with a problem such that I couldn't use it.

ANY time you get a blank from us that does not live up to your standards, we are happy to replace it!! (Admittedly, not as thrilled if we have to pay international shipping on it). Let us know and we will mail you a replacement. We do inspect each blank before we ship it, but it is certainly possible for an air bubble to be INSIDE the blanks!!

 

[airborne_r6]

Interestingly, in over 20 years of making acrylic pens I never saw holes in pen blanks.

NOW, however, I see them from time to time in the blanks that are sold to us. Is this a function of just seeing MANY more blanks than I did before? OR, are the manufacturers now selling the blanks that come from the outer perimeter of the sheet (Which have ALWAYS had voids, but we always considered that "waste area")?

Yes, Eugene and the other pen blank makers will have some small bubbles after casting and I agree completely with his solutions, stated above. But there has always been a difference in "expectation level" when the pen blank is commercially made acrylic.

SHOULD we expect "perfect" blanks from manufactured product?

What do you think?

Secondary question: There are a lot of cheap acrylic blanks available now, too. Do you EXPECT a failure rate when you buy the blanks for under $3?

I expect a failure rate from everything that I purchase. It is simply part of manufacturing. Everything cannot always be perfect all the time. However, when I pay more for something I expect a lower failure rate, whether that rate comes from better manufacturing processes or better QC pulling the bad items is irrelevant to me.

As far as choosing suppliers, an occasional bad product, with a good customer service behind it, will keep me buying that product from that supplier. When I start getting higher rates of bad products, even with good customer service, it becomes too much of a hassle and I will start looking to either replace the product or the supplier or both.

As far as blanks. Price does play a role in my expectation. If I am buying a more expensive blank I will usually buy only the number I need, unless I don't have time for screw ups, either from the material or more likely on my end, because I expect the higher priced blank to be adequate. If I am buying cheap blanks I buy several, I still don't really expect them to fail but, but if one does I don't care as much and I have another waiting, and if it doesn't, I have more pens.

That said, even from cheap blanks, I expect a low failure rate. I am a medical student and don't have very much free time. The last pens I made were over two months from drill and glue up to turn and a couple of them still don't have the finish on them from the beginning of October. A failed blank as I am turning it will literally set me back a couple months.

As one of your customers, I hope this helps, and, FWIW I have only ever had one blank with a problem such that I couldn't use it.

ANY time you get a blank from us that does not live up to your standards, we are happy to replace it!! (Admittedly, not as thrilled if we have to pay international shipping on it). Let us know and we will mail you a replacement. We do inspect each blank before we ship it, but it is certainly possible for an air bubble to be INSIDE the blanks!!

I should have clarified a little more. I have only ever had one bad blank ever and it was from a different supplier.

 

[ed4copies]

Glad to hear that!! We don't have MANY complaints, but we want to be sure you are ALWAYS happy!!

 

[mikespenturningz]

I think you need to have less expensive blanks for new people to ruin and you need to have more expensive blanks for experienced builders that make expensive pens. Half of the battle is having customers that are honest to begin with. If you wreck a blank because you did something stupid don't ask to have it replaced! We just love to blame problems on what we have bought but hate to just say to ourselves well if I had not forced that blank it would not have broken. I have ruined many blanks while I was learning and bulling my way through. Another thing we can do and I have done this several times is when I do need customer support and to have something replaced I try to order something that I need to take some of that burden off the company that is giving me customer service. For instance I purchased a pen kit from someone (don't remember who) but it was missing a part. Well I need to be made whole on this but I also needed some more pen sets so I ordered them at that time and relieved the shipping burden off the shipper. This allows that vendor to be more able to help me and gives me more kits at the same time. We just need to make sure we are not trying to get something for nothing!

 

[cmwoodworks]

Ok I have a question, probably should be posted in finishing but your talking about the very thing Im looking for answers for.

Im new at working with amalgam BUT we don't turn it. Made quite a few pieces varying colors with very few problems. last piece, it seemed we got a tiny piece that "fell" out right along the color. Tried filling with ca and it kept getting deeper. finally found a solution that worked and got it filled with a beautiful mirror finish.

Next piece, cut a slice of the blank on the band saw, cut pattern out on the scroll saw, sanded front and back on disk sander just to level it, then started hand sanding with 240 then 400 grit and is full of pits or bubbles.
My question is, could the initial sanding on the disk or belt sander, be too hot for amalgam? I have noticed it is way more sensitive to heat than acrylic. So far, it only seemed to have happened with a lava explosion (busy colors). Just curious, Im not about to give up on this yet because I am in love with the finished colors and completely bored with regular acrylic lol.
Thanks in advance for any advice on this.
Julie

 

[snyiper]

I have purchased blanks over the years mostly from people in IAP and can honestly say I have been floored with the quality of the blanks no matter the cost. Now on occasion I will get some acrylics from a big box or other brick and morter for what I call a bargain most are fine some are of poor quality but none the less I do expect a small amount of failure with these blanks. I do not try to ever blame the blank for a failure, I feel it is usually me or my technique or even dull tools. Now the blanks I get from people on here make me look good on a bad day and I think it is due to the care put into the making of these blanks it is pen makers making products for pen makers and every blank sold has their reputation on each blank no matter the talent of the turner. I have learned if I want a certain color or combination Ill just get one of the people on here to make it for me and Ill order extra in case it is my fault it turns out not quite right.