I thought making these blanks was the hard part. Turns out the hard part is actually turning them. The first one I made I used vulcanized fiber paper for vaneer and I thought maybe that was an issue. This last one I used black wood vaneer and all glued with wood glue. Still getting severe tear out. My tools are sharp and I've tried new carbide and traditional HSS tools, didn't make a difference. Flooding with thin CA helps but not a cure all. I consider myself a competent turner but I'm not a bowl turner so I don't deal with end grain a lot. Is there a trick to turning these? I like making the blanks, hate turning them. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
360° Herringbone Woes
- Thread starter KenB259
- Start date
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jttheclockman
Member
Wow yes that is some chip out. Sorry about this. Will be interested in answers. Check with Eric. He is the king. I think turning end grain bowls is alot different than what you are doing. First in bowl turning not all woods are good for end grain turning so I am sure they know the differences. With this type cutting you have end grain on odd angles and being differences in going from face grain to end grain in your cutting motions you can not sense changes in your hand because they are so small and fast. If and when I try these I will be using my skew all the way. Maybe a case of get close and then sand the rest of the way.
I tried a skew as well but still had the tear out. In the pictures, the blank is still 1 inch in diameter. I was just turning it round from the build. I did get the tear outs out by sanding it with 60 grit sandpaper. Maybe everyone sands these to size?
leehljp
Member Liaison
Out of curiosity, what speed are you turning?
Can you cut/slice the squares from a square blank like is normally used in a pen blank so that there are not end grains?
Can you cut/slice the squares from a square blank like is normally used in a pen blank so that there are not end grains?
I started out about 2000 rpm and after it was all round bumped it up to wide open, about 3,600. I don't really think there's away to avoid end grain, especially when adding vaneer between the pieces. On all my segmented blanks, I try to avoid end grain as much as possible, these are a different animal though. Maybe it's the wood species. The bloodwood is tearing more than the canary wood.
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GaryMGg
Member
Bloodwood can have reversing grain which is going to contribute to tearout.
EagleSC used to wrap some of his most delicate blanks in gauze and soak with CA.
Sounds crazy but it worked.
EagleSC used to wrap some of his most delicate blanks in gauze and soak with CA.
Sounds crazy but it worked.
I think you may be onto something. The very first one I tried was just canary wood with no veneer. I did not have the tearing issue no where near like the one with vaneer.
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The more I think about this the more I think it's worth a shot. I'm you going to try it without vaneer and see how it turns.
Displaced Canadian
Member
Are you using a skew?
That is one of the tools I tried.
jttheclockman
Member
Maybe want to try scrapers. A nice round nose scraper.
Dieseldoc
Member
Ken: I turn them super fast, shear cutting with very razor sharp skew, Thin CA is your friend with these.
I usually soak the blank in thin CA, this might be controversial but I use a small square carbide bit and turn at really slow rpm, the cuts come of as thin as tissue paper but I get very few chip outs using this method. I usually have to apply CA two or three times as the blank turns down and when I get close to the diameter I want I switch to sanding at high rpm being careful not to get too much heat in the blank
I watched a video from a bowl turner, where the point of the video was specifically addressing end grain. He stressed low rpm and light slow cuts were the best. I'm going to try that method with lots of thin CA. I'm getting to the point of having to glue in a brass tube.
jttheclockman
Member
You have to remember like I said a bowl turner is turning end grain on a flat plane. You are attempting on an angle so your tool is coming at it in a different direction. Plus bowl turners try to use woods with closed grains. Good luck. I think the sanding thing will be the answer to bring them home.
Displaced Canadian
Member
A sharp skew can solve a lot of issues. With segmenting with small pieces of wood tear out and pieces flying off becomes an issue. During construction you have to make sure the gluing surfaces are smooth and flat. I also found making sure to clean the fine sawdust out from the surfaces also helped.
leehljp
Member Liaison
And curious about another fact: is the wood stabilized before cutting into squares? Wonder if that would help?
howsitwork
Member
In bowl turning, with difficult end grain I often flood it with sanding sealer or even danish oil ( and allow 24 hours to cure ) before delicate light cuts with a high angle gouge so you have bevel support right next to the cut.
I think flooding it with thin CA and allowing it to soak in ( ie put it in a sealed container so the CA cures slowly NOT using activator ) would probably help?
I think flooding it with thin CA and allowing it to soak in ( ie put it in a sealed container so the CA cures slowly NOT using activator ) would probably help?
I switched to a negative rake cutter and that worked well. I started another post with the finished pen