2K Clear Coat Spray Finish

[oneula]

some of us in the surfboard industry spray finish an automotive 2k clear coat over the top of our fiberglass lamination to seal and provide an crystal clear, rock hard finish and a lighter seal coat than pouring and brushing on a final layer of clear finish resin which need to be sanded down and polished. This is normally done in automotive paint booth with a professional spray setup. but the finish is glass like and durable.

But now you can purchase the same automotive clear coat finish in a 1K spray can set up like this from ALSA Corp.

http://www.alsacorp.com/products/killercans/sc/speedclear.htm

Any one ever try automotive clear coat spray finishes either done professionally or at home in place of lacquer or CA?

all my medium CA finish attempts have ended up unsuccessfully lumpy

I just wetsanded 320-12000 and buffed out some deft lacquer sprayed cocobolo and tulipwood bodies that had been sitting around for awhile and I was impressed with the finish.

I've also used this stuff as a seal coat over epoxy resin/styrofoam cored boards wityh some success. We usually can't use solvent based products over styrofoam to prevent melting. And its very difficult to get a glass like finish with just epoxy.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2000756/2155/HP-Polyurethane-Gloss-Pint.aspx

I understand the lacquer takes months to harden and was hoping that using automotive clear coating in a a can might be a faster solution.

 

[snyiper]

Ok now after you take one of the 39.00 cans and mix it up is there a shelf life? I cant imagine how many pens would need to be sprayed at that price to be economical. I use those types of sprays for epoxies and they dont keep well after mixing.

 

[oneula]

batch work

I tend to do things in large batches so seal coating 50-100 turned sanded blanks and it would sense if this finish is as touch as CA or lacquer. A large bottle of CA here runs more than this can of 1K anyway.

 

[ldb2000]

Here we go again . CA is the quickest , easiest finish for pens . The problem is people tend to complicate it to the point that it becomes almost imposable to get a consistent finish . There are a dozen other finishes that will work well on pens but each has problems , too long to cure , not durable enough , steep learning curve .... the list goes on and on .
Automotive clear coat will work if you have the proper equipment to use it . The chemicals that make up Polyurethane clear coat are extremely toxic and a proper supplied air respirator must be used if you value your health , just ask anyone who works with Imron about it . That's not to say that CA has no health risks but they are far less then Poly clear coats .
How is it that this guy can do a good consistent CA finish ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zsJXC-17rU , simplicity is the key . A good CA finish don't have to be complicated unless you want it to be .

 

[oneula]

Yes I've watch all the youtube videos and it hasn't made a difference in the result. I've only end up sanding off my CA attempts with 100 or 150 grit. It could just be the Woodcraft bought CA I'm using or the humidity working outside in the Hawaii weather.

But I then again am also very familiar with with chemicals that probably would scare most stuff like Imron as well Styrene, Xylene, Epoxy sqeegees/spills cleaned with acetone or gasoline. I used those chemicals with more success that I have ever had with CA either as a finish or as a glue.

And by the way the MEKP hardener used with poly resins isn't any better for you than any of the other stuff I mentioned above just check the MSDS. That's why alot of home board makers have switched to epoxy from polyurethane resins although epoxy sensitivity is another issue.

I use a full mask 3M 7000 series respirator with organic and purple cartridges and even use a fully ventilated PAPR headset in a hazmat to sand my fiberglass laminations.

C3D Industries makes a water based spray on finish for Epoxy and Polyester resins that's getting alot of attention in the home builder community. Much safer than Imron and chearer than UPOL.
http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/uv-clear-used-gloss-coat

 

[cozee]

Aloha onelua, I spent a little time at Barbers Point while stationed at Kaneohe a few years back. About 32 years ago to be more precise! The heaviest grit you should be sanding the CA with would be 600. With 100/150 I can see why you are sanding it off, and quickly more than likely.

Shaka bro!

That's not to say that CA has no health risks but they are far less then Poly clear coats .

As a body shop manager, I have spent too many hours in classes learning about modern safety issues and practices so that I can not only preserve my life but also the lives of those who I work with. CA is an isocyanate based product. Many of today's automotive paints are activated with an isocyanate based hardener/activator. Please, do not be fooled by the lessor level or degree that some place on CA. It is just as bad. Today's automotive painters can suffer from iso-sensitivity. This comes from the build up of iso's in the body. Some have it so bad they cannot get near automotive paint anymore. I have read here and on other boards about some having certain reactions to CA. Most all of these reactions are the same one's that iso-sensitivity exhibits. Iso's do not need the lungs to enter the body as they can easily pass through soft tissue (read as soft skin also) and get into the blood stream. Whether working with CA or catalyzed automotive paints, cover exposed skin and wear a pressurized breathing apparatus which supplies fresh air, not filtered contaminated air. Carbon based filters do not filter out all the toxins. And most certainly, if you can smell it, your breathing it.

And while broaching the safety issue, don't be fooled by the term, "water based". Water is absorbed even more readily through the skin, or into the lungs, carrying with it the "paint" which is left behind when the water is passed through the system.

 

[Skye]

You don't have any other IAP members within driving distance that can show you a CA finish in person? Really all it takes is someone doing it along side you. You'll get the hang of it.

 

[rjwolfe3]

You don't have any other IAP members within driving distance that can show you a CA finish in person? Really all it takes is someone doing it along side you. You'll get the hang of it.

Lol, Skye everybody has someone within driving distance, the problem is finding someone willing to drive!:biggrin:

I am self taught on everything so after 4 years I still can't get a good CA finish.:frown:

 

[oneula]

Aloha Cozee
Barber's is not the same anymore since the Navy gave it back to the state. More of a dumping ground these days if any anything.

The only reason I have to use the 100/150 is to take off all the lumpy CA build ups I'm getting. Again it could just be the wrong technique, I even tried the BLO/CA technique Russ talked about. Mostly been using medium but I might give thin another go. None of the sales guys at at Woodcraft I buy from have even tried a CA finish yet mostly BLO and lacquer.

Again I tend to do things in batches like 20-25 pens a weekend to get them out of the way so I can swap out and work on other things on alternate weekends like wooden surfboards, fins, letter openers, bracelets, clocks and other stuff awaiting their next phase of processing.

HVLP spraying or lacquer dipping 20-50 premade blanks and letting them dry for a couple of weeks while I work on other things just seemed more effficient than doing one at a time.

The only reason I brought this up is because I had earlier sprayed some cocobolo, tulipwood and canarywood finished single tube bodies with 6 coats of Deft lacquer a couple of months ago and decided to just micromesh wetsand them and buff them out with surfboard polishing compound, white diamond and high friction polish and they ended up looking almost as brilliant as the acrylics and polyresins I recently switched over to turning. So I said what the hell, why not try UPOL clear coats which are supposed to be less fragile to cracking than lacquer finishes.

I've even been toying aorund with the idea of just cutting them down thin and casting them in a thin layer of clear poly using one of those resin saver molds then hand sanding them down and buff them out to get those really deep car/surfboard gloss finishes.

But again like everyone has been saying I probably just don't know what I'm doing with this CA finish.

The other problem is I don't have a controlled environment shop so I'm working outdoors using a portable mini lathe in the bright Hawaiian Ewa sun under a pop up.

But I'll give it another go..
I can see why folks find it so frustrating, especially in a production-like environment.

 

[Wildman]

Aloha Oneula, see no problem with ALSA Corp 2k Clear finish you use on your pens if you recover your cost selling pens. Yes, sounds expensive to me once shipping and hazardous material charges added to the bill.

I listed few alternative products you may find less expensive. Only product with actual experience is Deft. I use the spray on sanding sealer, and brush on Deft. I have also used Deft high gloss spray. Deft sanding sealer and high gloss in spray can less than $10.00 at Lowes in my town. Think pay about $10.00 for a quart of Deft high gloss brush on here.

Another product available locally is Rust-Oleum Ultra Cover 2x, usually found at Walmarts, Lowes, Home Depot, Autozone or big box stores.

http://rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=403

Not available locally for me but sound interesting:

ColorTone Aerosol Guitar Lacquer

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishi...vents/1/ColorTone_Aerosol_Guitar_Lacquer.html

http://reranchstore.stores.yahoo.net/nitclearcoat.html

I have used CA as a finish in the past with no technical problems. Health problems led me to stop using CA.

Drying and curing times has led to a lot of confusing. People forget you can sand and rub out a finish once it has dried but not cured. Wait times can be as little as couple of hours to next day or days. Temperature and humidity has a lot to do with those wait times. Application technique (wiping, brushing, spraying) and number of coats applied need consideration too.
Mahalo!

 

[oneula]

mahalo wildman
I've used that rustoleum product on some of other wood carfts and as a surfboard final seal finish as well.

cost is relative being that a typical polyester gloss coat on a single side of a surfboard will use as much as 12-16 oz's of clear finish resin with most of it ending up on the floor or in your drip catch as you want the resin the flow off the surface to create an ultra smooth surface. you probably could fill a couple resin saver molds full of the excess drip off if you could also use that mix for pen. (actually I might try that next time I finish coat one of my surfboards)

there's another acrylic coating from C3D Industries that's proving to be a spray-on alternate to resin that I might try just got to set up my HVLP sprayer. I've tried to spray the Enduro 2 part resin stuff before with out alot of success either even though a guy I learned from does it all the time to spray seal his epoxy laminated surfboards.

I'll keep trying this CA stuff who knows. That ammonia/cyanide gassing issue can be irritating.

 

[cozee]

If your ending up with "wake" lines after applying CA, just use a flat nose scraper to level them out than apply a little more CA. If need be, use the scraper again then sand to finish.

 

[Old Lar]

I have pretty good luck with a ca finish using very little blo. I slow the lathe up to about 4-500 rpm and put 3-4 coats of thin ca with a paper towel dribbleing a couple drops at a time over the top of the blank and rubbing lightly and rapidly. Then I put a small drop of blo on a plastic bag that pen parts come in and put on 3-4 coats of medium ca. I dribble it onto the blank on the first pass and put a drop on the plastic bag to apply the rest. I rub rapidly and but lightly after each coat with only a few seconds between coats. After the last coat, I keep rubbing for 5-10 seconds and then let it turn a few seconds and apply a little accelerator. Because I kept rubbing it as it asthe ca sets up it is usually pretty smooth and only requires very little sanding. I finish it up with a little Plastix from Wal-Mart. This works well for me and I get a lot of compliments on my finishes.

My question tho is do you make your wooden letter openers from scratch or is there a kit out there that you use? Those are great.

Didn't want to hijack your thread, just curious on the openers and share what works for me after many failed methods that I tried.

 

[Skye]

The other problem is I don't have a controlled environment shop so I'm working outdoors using a portable mini lathe in the bright Hawaiian Ewa sun under a pop up.

You're preaching to the choir man. My first worshop was the back steps of my house. I sat on the lower step, put the lathe on the higher step. Next I graduated to a table outside and say on an Igloo cooler. I'm in my shed now, but it's not too much of an improvement.

Here's a pic from a long time ago. Those aren't shavings in the background, it's much from my back yard.

 

[oneula]

discovered my problem
too fast lathe speed using too thick CA
ie trying to build too thick a coat too fast

I slowed the lathe all the way down switched to thin CA and don't use that squeeze for heat set technique.
Now I just put on very single pass light coats with accelerant for setting and build it up over 8-12 layers
Then I go back over it very lightly with a skew before micromeshing it
I also use soaking wet sand paper 600-800-1200 before micro meshing
some surluster surfboard polish, plastic heat set polish, renwax to seal and i'm done.

Getting the liquid coats on very lightly on a super slow lathe was the key
just wetting the surface in a single stroke no back and forth squeezing to build up th eheat business.

Also tried manny's CA and its an eye opener compared to the off the shelf (Lowes/HD/Woodcraft) stuff.

 

[snyiper]

Manny's glue is awesome for sure!!!!