Who makes the kits?

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timberbits

timberbits

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Sydney - NSW - Australia
wood-of-1kind said:
Berea, Daycom DO NOT have actual pen factories that they can call their own, but in fact they "outsource" their parts and simply use "packing (specialists)" to put their kits together. Is this a true statement? This is what I am led to believe. Your input is appreciated and once again respect your rights if you choose not to reply.

Regards,
-Peter-
Click to expand...

I get asked this question a lot, so I'll put it on paper (internet).

Just to set the scene, I am a builder by trade and I use to run a crew of 6 men full time. 2 labourers, 1 apprentice, 2 chippies and old generalist who could fix or make anything (this guy was 70 and was probably the best worker I ever had). We built multi-unit housing and the construction company was mine. It was sold as a project built by my company, we leveraged the name because we were known to be the best builders in town.

We were the builders, but we didn't do any electrical work - the electricians did the electrical, as was the plumbing, plastering, bricklaying etc. These were all specialist jobs which was done by specialist. But at the end of the project we were still the builders.

The pen kit makers are the same. A lot of people think that with pen kits, there is this one big factory - the size of the aeroplane hanger full of people with different machines doing different components of the pen. I have visited a few of these factories in mainland china - they each make about 1.2 billion pens a year for the mass market. One factory which was 16 hectors in size boasted that they had made 46 billion pens since they started 18 years ago.

The niche pen makes in Taiwan don't seem to be this size (I have not found one that large in size yet in Taiwan) - most of them moved to Main Land China quite a few years ago. From my observations, its more the smaller factories now operating in Taiwan. Like a small building company they seem to outsource most of their work.

Mechanisms are a very specialist area - these mechanisms machines are based on automated mass output - tens of thousands are pumped out every day from these machines.

Refills are also a very specialist area - again refills are pumped out by the tens of thousands every day. You can actually order your own refills with your own logo on them but the minimum order is about 50,000 in a type and colour ink. Even at 50,000 refills, if they think this is a once off order, they don't even really want to talk to you.

Pen clips are also another specialist area - the specialist clip makers pump out thousands every day. They have have specially designed automated machines which pump them out non stop.

Couplers, nibs, brass tubes, electro plating, powder coating, plastic injection moulding, polishing, metal spinning, and the list goes on. Each step of the pen making process is very specialised and for efficiencies reason, each little factory has specialised to do certain tasks.

I can't speak for Berea - you guys should ask Berea yourself, I have not dealt with the Berea brand. But for Dayacom, I am a Dayacom agent in Australia. When I visit Dayacom, their based in the heart of Taipei (Taiwan's capital). Real Estate is very expensive there. There is no big factory but an office with QA staff checking all the components before assembly and bagging.

It doesn't appear that they are payrolling a factory that they own or operate. I believe it's more of outsourced operation like my construction company.

They project manage the pen kit making and seriously QA all the goods before they are bagged and sent.

Attached is a few pics. I visited quite a few of these smaller outsource companies not with Dayacom but another pen kit maker in Taiwan. These smaller outsource business seem to be small family owned and operated businesses where the Male is the specialist (tool maker or turner) and the wife and kids + 1 labourer run the business. Their factory is small (about 50 - 100 sqm or 1,000 square feet) and the family live upstairs from the factory.

There is about 20 - 40 separate steps in making a pen kit, here are just a few.

Automated lathe - bushings.jpg
Automated lathe making bushings.

Automated lathe - couplers.jpg
Automated lathe making couplers

Pen clip polishing2.jpg
Polishing the pen clips ready for electro plating

Pen clip polishing.jpg
Before and after photo.

Sierra Pen Grips being polished2.jpg
Sierra Pen Grips polished.

Sierra Pen Grips being polished.jpg
Sierra Pen Grips being polished

Sierra Pen Grips.jpg

Sierra Pen Grips

Solid brass rods.jpg
Solid brass rods ready for machining to nib couplers

Tube resizes2.jpg
Tubes being resized into Sierra Pen Grips

Tube resizes.jpg
Brass tube spinning machines which puts the cones on the Sierra Pen Grips.
 
Last edited:
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thanks

timberbits said:
I get asked this question a lot, so I'll put it on paper (internet).

Just to set the scene, I am a builder by trade and I use to run a crew of 6 men full time. 2 labourers, 1 apprentice, 2 chippies and old generalist who could fix or make anything (this guy was 70 and was probably the best worker I ever had). We built multi-unit housing and the construction company was mine. It was sold as a project built by my company, we leveraged the name because we were known to be the best builders in town.

We were the builders, but we didn't do any electrical work - the electricians did the electrical, as was the plumbing, plastering, bricklaying etc. These were all specialist jobs which was done by specialist. But at the end of the project we were still the builders.

The pen kit makers are the same. A lot of people think that with pen kits, there is this one big factory - the size of the aeroplane hanger full of people with different machines doing different components of the pen. I have visited a few of these factories in mainland china - they each make about 1.2 billion pens a year for the mass market. One factory which was 16 hectors in size boasted that they had made 46 billion pens since they started 18 years ago.

The niche pen makes in Taiwan don't seem to be this size (I have not found one that large in size yet in Taiwan) - most of them moved to Main Land China quite a few years ago. From my observations, its more the smaller factories now operating in Taiwan. Like a small building company they seem to outsource most of their work.

Mechanisms are a very specialist area - these mechanisms machines are based on automated mass output - tens of thousands are pumped out every day from these machines.

Refills are also a very specialist area - again refills are pumped out by the tens of thousands every day. You can actually order your own refills with your own logo on them but the minimum order is about 50,000 in a type and colour ink. Even at 50,000 refills, if they think this is a once off order, they don't even really want to talk to you.

Pen clips are also another specialist area - the specialist clip makers pump out thousands every day. They have have specially designed automated machines which pump them out non stop.

Couplers, nibs, brass tubes, electro plating, powder coating, plastic injection moulding, polishing, metal spinning, and the list goes on. Each step of the pen making process is very specialised and for efficiencies reason, each little factory has specialised to do certain tasks.

I can't speak for Berea - you guys should ask Berea yourself, I have not dealt with the Berea brand. But for Dayacom, I am a Dayacom agent in Australia. When I visit Dayacom, their based in the heart of Taipei (Taiwan's capital). Real Estate is very expensive there. There is no big factory but an office with QA staff checking all the components before assembly and bagging.

It doesn't appear that they are payrolling a factory that they own or operate. I believe it's more of outsourced operation like my construction company.

They project manage the pen kit making and seriously QA all the goods before they are bagged and sent.

Attached is a few pics. I visited quite a few of these smaller outsource companies not with Dayacom but another pen kit maker in Taiwan. These smaller outsource business seem to be small family owned and operated businesses where the Male is the specialist (tool maker or turner) and the wife and kids + 1 labourer run the business. Their factory is small (about 50 - 100 sqm or 1,000 square feet) and the family live upstairs from the factory.

There is about 20 - 40 separate steps in making a pen kit, here are just a few.

View attachment 34100
Automated lathe making bushings.

View attachment 34101
Automated lathe making couplers

View attachment 34102
Polishing the pen clips ready for electro plating

View attachment 34103
Before and after photo.

View attachment 34104
Sierra Pen Grips polished.

View attachment 34105
Sierra Pen Grips being polished

View attachment 34106

Sierra Pen Grips

View attachment 34107
Solid brass rods ready for machining to nib couplers

View attachment 34108
Tubes being resized into Sierra Pen Grips

View attachment 34109
Brass tube spinning machines which puts the cones on the Sierra Pen Grips.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the insight.
 
What an education. That explains a few things about why I am not able to order USB flash boards without ordering 50,000.
Thank you for sharing.
John
 
Cool photo set..thanks for sharing.

We can do this right here...a total pen buy in! I just need 5000 members to come on board with 2 grand a piece and we are in the pen parts business! I am even volunteering for board of directors. :biggrin:
 
Jgrden said:
What compelled you to travel to China and Taiwan??
Click to expand...

As a builder, I use to go to China every 2 months to buy things for our construction company.

Things like

ceramic and stone tiles - retail prices in Australia for ceramic tiles is $20USD - $40 /m2 ($2 - 3USD / sq feet). In China where most of the Australian tiles come from they cost about $2 - 4USD / m2 ($0.14 - $0.30USD) FOB. Crystal and border tiles retail for about $35USD / sq feet and they are about $2 - 3USD / sq feet FOB.

High end stainless steel door handles retails for about $60USD a door in Australia - they are about $3 - $5USD in China.

The list goes on and on. Because we did multi unit housing in Australia, I could fill up a 20ft container every 2 - 3 months. We saved about $20k - 50k / unit buy buying direct from China. Most of our stuff we use in our houses in Australia come from China, were just cutting out all the middle men.

When I stopped building and went into semi-retirement after the birth of our 3rd child, this hobby of pen turning just naturally took the next progression into importing.

Some of you know about the big problems we had in Australia about 2 years ago, when the very small range of kits and the extremely high prices we were paying in Australia was a big issue.

No one was really doing a good job of servicing this market and I was very frustrated buy the fact that even though I was buying hundreds of kits at a time of the lidded pens (JR Gents and Barons), I would be able to save about $2,000 buy buying from the US than from Australian Sellers. I would ask for a bulk discount, but their response is even though the JR Gents were $18AUD (roughly $16USD for a 10k rollerball) because your buying 300 at a time, we can only give you a discount of 50 cents a kit. That was a joke which made me start importing kits.

I can speak Mandarin and Cantonese so that give me a natural advantage over other buyers who has a communication problem with China and Taiwan.

I still go over to China and Taiwan about 3 - 4 times a year, but after about 8 years of travelling, the novelty is wearing away. It still blows my mind away every time I travel over there.

Does anyone else travel to China and Taiwan?
 
No Wonder

timberbits said:
As a builder, I use to go to China every 2 months to buy things for our construction company.

Things like

ceramic and stone tiles - retail prices in Australia for ceramic tiles is $20USD - $40 /m2 ($2 - 3USD / sq feet). In China where most of the Australian tiles come from they cost about $2 - 4USD / m2 ($0.14 - $0.30USD) FOB. Crystal and border tiles retail for about $35USD / sq feet and they are about $2 - 3USD / sq feet FOB.

High end stainless steel door handles retails for about $60USD a door in Australia - they are about $3 - $5USD in China.

The list goes on and on. Because we did multi unit housing in Australia, I could fill up a 20ft container every 2 - 3 months. We saved about $20k - 50k / unit buy buying direct from China. Most of our stuff we use in our houses in Australia come from China, were just cutting out all the middle men.

When I stopped building and went into semi-retirement after the birth of our 3rd child, this hobby of pen turning just naturally took the next progression into importing.

Some of you know about the big problems we had in Australia about 2 years ago, when the very small range of kits and the extremely high prices we were paying in Australia was a big issue.

No one was really doing a good job of servicing this market and I was very frustrated buy the fact that even though I was buying hundreds of kits at a time of the lidded pens (JR Gents and Barons), I would be able to save about $2,000 buy buying from the US than from Australian Sellers. I would ask for a bulk discount, but their response is even though the JR Gents were $18AUD (roughly $16USD for a 10k rollerball) because your buying 300 at a time, we can only give you a discount of 50 cents a kit. That was a joke which made me start importing kits.

I can speak Mandarin and Cantonese so that give me a natural advantage over other buyers who has a communication problem with China and Taiwan.

I still go over to China and Taiwan about 3 - 4 times a year, but after about 8 years of travelling, the novelty is wearing away. It still blows my mind away every time I travel over there.

Does anyone else travel to China and Taiwan?
Click to expand...
I noticed a couple of years ago that I had a fair number of Aussies (for a business my size) buying from me. I even asked one of them why and I admit to being supprised when he said he couldn't get them in Australia...and I was only selling slims and some Sierras to him.

Same thing in Fance...I had a customer there buying 500 slims at a time for resale in his shop and almost begging me to buy Cigar kits just to sell to him. Seems someone in France had exclusive rights to sell and my supplier wouldn't sell directly to him. I think he got that resolved though since he has not been around for awhile.
 
Great article, did you notice the guard made out of cardboard on that large polisher? Safety does not appear to be high on the priority list. Another point of interest was the age of most of the machines. It is possible that these have been family heirlooms and the family business has been passed down from generation to generation. This has been eye opening for me. Thank you for posting.
 
Thank you for taking the time to bring this information to us. This has been an eye opener. Somehow, I had visioned a huge factory, now a hoard of mom and pop operations.
Charles
 
Very very interesting.
I'd love to see even more of these!

As someone who grew with a father who was a fine watch merchant, I know that outsourcing is not necessarily a compromise in quality.

But to be honest, if my shop was in such crappy conditions I would not allow visitors in: certainly not with a camera.
 
Seeing those photos reminds me of the old addage you would not eat in the resturant if you were to see the kitchen. If the family lives over the factory must make for some fun Saturday nights. Do you want to play a board game or go downstairs and make a couple of thousand pens?
 
Very interesting, thank you for posting this. Just to plant an idea in your ear, since all parts are outsourced individually, how difficult would it be to get quantities of replacement parts, like for one, couplers for Jr. Gents?
 
Thanks for sharing that and taking the time. It was very interesting, and makes sense, but I never dreamed it was like that.

I operate a small studio and camera store and if the pen parts are all from different sources, what must our cameras be like?
 
moke said:
Thanks for sharing that and taking the time. It was very interesting, and makes sense, but I never dreamed it was like that.

I operate a small studio and camera store and if the pen parts are all from different sources, what must our cameras be like?
Click to expand...


just think of the this:

camera.jpg
 
luke39uk said:
Thanks for your informative article, very interesting to see how the Taiwanese parts are made,
Click to expand...
The Chinese kits are made the same way.

As you appreciate, when companies go to China to get stuff made - the words rolling off their tongue is CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP. I want the same stuff for LESS LESS LESS. I can buy it in Taiwan for $1 so because I am buying it from China I want to pay $0.50.

As you can imagine, the Chinese with less to work with find smaller more hungry sub-contractors. With less to work with the quality suffers, the amount of quality checking reduces. They start trying to save money by cutting corners to deliver the product for $0.50.

Plating is usually the first step that suffers. 24ct gold is now very expensive. They try to reduce the amount of gold on the plating to the bare minimum - hence Chinese kits are prone to poor durability of plating.

Refills is another good example, the Australian Newspaper have covered this issue in the past. The amount of ink in some Chinese refills, only have enough to write about 2 pages worth. This is due to squeezing of price paid to the refill manufactures. It often agreed between the Chinese project manager and the refill manufacturer to reduce the amount of ink in the refill to save the extra $0.005/refill.

The list goes on. Chinese goods often (and quite deservedly) get labeled with poor quality, but that is more a result of lower specifications to lower the prices paid by the importer. This is not only just restricted to pen kit sellers, walk into a high end Italian clothing store then walk into Wallmart. I am pretty sure you will see a difference in quality - I am sure that you will also see a difference in price as well.

Sourcing parts from different sources is nothing new. The car industry is based around this concept.

Timberbits.
 
timberbits said:
luke39uk said:
Thanks for your informative article, very interesting to see how the Taiwanese parts are made,
Click to expand...
The Chinese kits are made the same way.

As you appreciate, when companies go to China to get stuff made - the words rolling off their tongue is CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP. I want the same stuff for LESS LESS LESS. I can buy it in Taiwan for $1 so because I am buying it from China I want to pay $0.50.

As you can imagine, the Chinese with less to work with find smaller more hungry sub-contractors. With less to work with the quality suffers, the amount of quality checking reduces. They start trying to save money by cutting corners to deliver the product for $0.50.

Plating is usually the first step that suffers. 24ct gold is now very expensive. They try to reduce the amount of gold on the plating to the bare minimum - hence Chinese kits are prone to poor durability of plating.

Refills is another good example, the Australian Newspaper have covered this issue in the past. The amount of ink in some Chinese refills, only have enough to write about 2 pages worth. This is due to squeezing of price paid to the refill manufactures. It often agreed between the Chinese project manager and the refill manufacturer to reduce the amount of ink in the refill to save the extra $0.005/refill.

The list goes on. Chinese goods often (and quite deservedly) get labeled with poor quality, but that is more a result of lower specifications to lower the prices paid by the importer. This is not only just restricted to pen kit sellers, walk into a high end Italian clothing store then walk into Wallmart. I am pretty sure you will see a difference in quality - I am sure that you will also see a difference in price as well.

Sourcing parts from different sources is nothing new. The car industry is based around this concept.

Timberbits.
Click to expand...

well said, but I think that the reason that people have a problem with Chinese products is that usually this compromise in quality is not disclosed, in facts it's disguised.

I know that is my problem with Chinese products, anyway. let me choose between price and quality, but don't misrepresent your product.

was it in this forum that someone reported how he visited a chinese company that made drill bit sets, and was shown how these sets actually have only 3 acceptable bits, the more common 1/4, 3/8 and I think 1/8, and the rest is made of low quality, short lasting "tin" which is painted to look like the better bits?

just my 2 Yuan...
 
studioso said:
well said, but I think that the reason that people have a problem with Chinese products is that usually this compromise in quality is not disclosed, in facts it's disguised.

I know that is my problem with Chinese products, anyway. let me choose between price and quality, but don't misrepresent your product.
Click to expand...
Funny you should say that because we have a big pen kit seller here in Australia that puts his hand on his heart to say his pen kits come from Taiwan. Then I find out that he is one of Rizheng's bigger customer. He has even gone on the forums to ask for the bags back. Misrepresentation is not a new thing in commerce, so buyer beware.

Timberbits
 
timberbits said:
studioso said:
well said, but I think that the reason that people have a problem with Chinese products is that usually this compromise in quality is not disclosed, in facts it's disguised.

I know that is my problem with Chinese products, anyway. let me choose between price and quality, but don't misrepresent your product.
Click to expand...
Funny you should say that because we have a big pen kit seller here in Australia that puts his hand on his heart to say his pen kits come from Taiwan. Then I find out that he is one of Rizheng's bigger customer. He has even gone on the forums to ask for the bags back. Misrepresentation is not a new thing in commerce, so buyer beware.

Timberbits
Click to expand...


Dave

You raise some very valid points. The problem comes many times is that we as consumers are at the mercy of the people we buy from. I am and will not state names. They may carry a Tawaineses brand and then next thing there is a Chineses knockoff amongst their inventory and we as buyers do not know the difference. We have to rely on people such as yourself to sell what you represent a good quality product. I feel confortable buying from certain dealers and knowing they stand behind the product they sell. Thanks again for the enlightenment about the production of the kits and for also stepping up to the plate and becoming a formidable seller that I am sure will continue to serve us with good quality products.
 
Thanks for all the great information. It is very enlightening. I work for an american company who runs a manufacturing plant in China as well as in the US and have seen bits and pieces of what you described as well. Although I work in I.T., and have more to do with supporting our computer systems than gathering and and assembling the parts for our products, I see enough to understand the supplier/assembler relationships to a small degree. To see how it's broken down in the pen industry is very interesting since this is becoming a big intrest and for me.

Thanks for your contribution to our knowledge pool!
 
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