M3 blanks?

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yaroslaw

yaroslaw

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Sep 1, 2012
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Kyiv, Ukraine
I've never tried to turn M3. Guess why?
I can judge it only remotely and haven't seen one in hand, and by all photos and stuff they look... At least overpriced, at last - boring.

I do not understand M3 price, I do not understand M3 marketing idea.

M3 "Mokume" doesn't look like mokume at all! M3 "damascus"... you guess it... doesn't look like damascus. Nobody who have ever seen damascus would be fooled by M3. Again, judging by photos.

And price runs higher then any of regular pen blanks and higher than most hand-made blanks (which means it is really 10-20 times overpriced?).
And plain "aluminium", "brass" blanks that costs 50-100 times more then aluminium and brass? What's the point?

So guys - WHY are you buying M3? How are you marketing them? Who buys these pens? Why they are buying it?

I just feel that I miss something big about it.
 
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"IMAGE" is everything to some. Simple answer is that folks are "free" to try M3 and like it and others such as you have a difference of opinion. Nothing wrong with either position. Just for the record, I too haven't been overwhelmed with neither the look nor the high price of M3.
 
I've sold several pens of M3, the latest one just last week. It's just another material. If the pens are priced fairly they will sell as well as any other pen. As far as looks go anything any of us make will be liked by some, not so much by others.
 
I love people who have never tried something and have so much to say for their lack of experience.
If you bother to read you would learn that M3 Mokume and Damascus are both a "modern interpretation of the ancient art" and are actually Metal Composites.

I have turned several custom pens using M3 and sold them for between $250.00 and $350.00usd. As has been said before, some people make and sell higher priced pens and some people don't. M3 is what it is – nothing more and nothing less. Some people get it, enjoy trying new materials and improving their skills - and some people don't.

I am actually thankful for people that don't get it. The more people that don't use material like M3 and other custom blanks, the more unique the pens made of those materials become. The bottom line is everyone is entitled to their own opinion and this is mine.
 
I dont think they look all that bad but not good enough to spend $30 bucks per blank only to put it on a pen that I can only sell for 50-60 If I had a market that I could get $250 - $350 for a pen I would have no problem giving them a try but that aint happening for me.
 
I have made some and sold them easily. However, a customer told me this week that the "Damascus" does not look like Damascus to him. Too much dark in it. But some people like having a pen made with the same type of metal used in the International Space Station and the Stealth aircraft. It's all about image! It's not really what I think about it that counts. It's what the customer thinks that is important to me. If they will buy them, I will make them.

I do respect your right to not like them. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! They more they sell, the prettier they get to me however! :biggrin:
 
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Guys, I wrote as a last sentence - "I just feel that I miss something big about it"
And I want to know what I have missed. May be they appear much better in right light in person.
And I am not "not liking it". I have no excuse to try it other then curiosity. And my financial part says "$30 is too much for curiosity, better spend them on, say, Abalone blank".

JJturns, as for "modern interpretation of damaskus/mokume" - it DOESN'T LOOK like either of those. Actually on photo it just looks like acrylics... I cannot sell it as "mokume" or "damaskus", even "composit damaskus" cause it doesn't look like it. And I sell composit stone (trustone, heh) cause it looks like actual stone.
And for "don't buy expensive materials etc..." - I've made pens from whale teeth (price is like ivory), whale bone, now I'm in search for mammoth ivory of good quality. May be you will be surprised to know, that M3 is more expensive then 40000yrs old mammoth (if buying chunks not cut to "pen size")?

It's really easy to justify (for the customers) the price of Gator bone pen, bog oak, trustone, ivory pen - even if prices goes to $500-$1000 range. And I don't understand how to explain why M3 pen is SOOOO expensive (I don't do charity, if incoming price is $30 per blank, it means +$60-100 in retail price of a pen). If I would know - I will definitely try it.

edman2, "Space crafts" is a good point, though. Any other ideas?:)
 
I haven't tried it yet, (price :biggrin:) but I think the cobaltium style is unique with the color changing aspect it has. I plan on trying it once I have the funds for adventure :biggrin:. But I don't get the aluminum or brass either...
 
Joe S. said:
But I don't get the aluminum or brass either...
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much easier to turn.

Yaroslav mentioned Trustone. Some of the stone that are mimicked are less expensive than Truestone I believe, but trying to turn them with woodworking tools would be a disaster.

Now Brass and Alum are turnable, but many have problems that they wouldn't have with the M3 material. Is it worth the upcharge, you have to decide that on your own.

And I haven't bought any M3 either, but have tried alum and brass, and Copper on my lathe. Alum is okay, Brass and copper are noticably tougher.

Roy isn't showing a price for the damascus blanks right now (all sold out), but I bet they aren't even close to the price of the M3 (meaning M3 is much cheaper) AND you are set with the shape of the pen if you are lucky enough to purchase one (turning and acid etching is done prior to your purchase, you just assemble). Would it fool anyone who knew, no. but it has a resemblance to the real thing. Now M3 might try to work on some of the patterns a bit more, but that is the only are of improvement I can think of.
 
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Put me in the group that's underwhelmed by pictures I've seen. I've thought about trying one, but I just can't get excited about it. I have so many ideas on my "to Do" pen list, I doubt I'll be trying M3 anytime soon.
 
Reading through the replies in this thread, I don't understand how anyone can pass judgement on M3 without trying it first. Personally, I have turned well over 200 pens using M3 Metals. They are my best selling material and highest priced pens. I exhibit at art/craft shows full time (25+/year).

If you have a chance, check out some of my photo posts under my name. There are three M3 metal pens (2 jr gent II, and one over/under (m3 black titanium/m3 brass)).

Once you turn some M3, you will know exactly why these blanks are well worth their expensive price tag.

Good Luck,

Rick
 
Haynie said:
Why would someone want to make a pen out of wood? Isn't that the same question?
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Haynie, no, it's not. I'm not asking "why WOULD SOMEONE", I'm asking "why ARE YOU".

If you'd ask me why I make pens from wood and how do I market them - I would answer. Not blaming you, not being sarcastic, I would just write down few reasons why. So now I want the same from someone, who turns M3 on regular basis and sells it - there should be reasons, right?
 
Rick, thanks, that makes sense. I just want to state - it's something with M3 that they look boring on photos. May be after seeing this in person I would see a beauty on a photos too.

What is the best M3 color to start with (i.e. if you would suggest only one blank to try and hook someone on M3)?
 
Also, Rick, how exactly do you market them? What "stories" do you tell? Or - what sells them, look, exclusiveness, "space crafts"?

My complain about being not close to damaskus/mokume was because I was looking for material to make pens for knife-lovers, and M3 was under deep consideration.
 
yaroslaw said:
Rick, thanks, that makes sense. I just want to state - it's something with M3 that they look boring on photos. May be after seeing this in person I would see a beauty on a photos too.

What is the best M3 color to start with (i.e. if you would suggest only one blank to try and hook someone on M3)?
Click to expand...


My personal favorite is M3 Cobalt but I sell at lot of M3 GunSmoke. One cool thing about M3, it segments well with other M3 Metals. Most of my pens, I will segment M3 Cobalt and M3 Black titanium together. I just looked for an example pen to photograph but sold out of them at my last show this past weekend.... This should say something... LOL

Good Luck!

Rick
 
I have been using the M3 material for a little over two years. It is one of my popular sellers. Looking at my records I have sold a little over 500 pens using M3. Is it expensive yes but with you add the material plus the components you get a nice pen. My one pen line starts at 130.0 up to 575.00 and they sale.
 
As far as the plain colors. I tried them and did not like the out come. Instead, I use the solid colors for accents only. I have a new pen coming out shortly which will incorporate black lava and M3 Gold.
 
I hope you guys don't mind a few words from the manufacturer, but this is a perfect opportunity for us to respond to some of your questions. First of all, we agree with the comments about the photographs. M3 is extremely hard to photograph because the surface is dimensional and what you are seeing when you look at it is the reflected colors. So far, no photograph has been able to portray the true beauty of M3. Cobaltium, White Aluminum, Blue Bronze and Red Copper all change colors based on the light making them almost impossible to photograph. The diamond dust twinkle that delights the eye with multi colored glints looks like a flaw or dust in a photograph. This has been our biggest marketing challenge because people need to see M3 firsthand in order to appreciate it. Now that M3 Mokume has been in the market place for 6 years and many thousands of M3 products have been crafted and sold the material is getting the attention of larger manufacturers. Buck Knives just released a collector's edition pocket knife using M3 Lava bolsters and the edition sold out in just a few days with a retail price of $450. (see attached photo)

The use of the words Mokume and Damascus in our product names seems to be a cause of some confusion so let me explain. Our first product line launched in 2007 was a series of solid metal composite pen blanks that pen makers could work with their existing tools, turn on a wood lathe and the finished pen would exhibit the look and feel of metal with a gem finish. The day after we posted the blanks on eBay, we were asked by a customer if we could use our M3 process to make a wood grained metal called "Mokume Gane". We did some research and discovered that "Mokume Gane" is a Japanese phrase which literally translates to "wood grained metal" and the images that we found were very beautiful. So we set out to create a modern interpretation of this magnificent Japanese metal art using the latest in new age molecular composite technology.

Rather than try to duplicate the ancient geometric patterns of traditional Mokume we went more for natural wood grain and burl patterns. After months of R&D and thousands of dollars we succeeded. Today, our wood grain patterns are so realistic that M3 Mokume is referred to by some as "The New Wood". Keeping the words Mokume and Damascus as part of the M3 product names gives our customers and the end user a point of reference for the material. (see attached photo)

Don't let the photographs stop you from trying this remarkable material. You really need to see it and touch it to fully appreciate it. Any M3 Mokume is a good blank to start with, but the Cobaltium Mokume and the Black Gold are among our top sellers. If you want to try M3 for a little less money then try any one of our M3 Lava Mokume blanks. The Lava surface is different from the metal so you actually get more contrast with the Lava material and the wood grains are gorgeous.

Every M3 product is fully guaranteed against defect as well as pattern. If you turn the blank and the resulting pattern is unattractive then we will replace free of charge. Even if you break the blank and it is your fault we will replace it for 50% of the current MSRP. We want our artisans to be successful and our engineers are always available to answer questions and help you find solutions.

I hope the IAP members find this information helpful. For more information please visit our websites http://www.M3ci.com and http://www.MetalPenBlanks.com.
 

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The statement I just read describing this product from the manufacturers point of view, along with the background knowledge imparted is appreciated and useful. I have yet to see the finished product, and agree that it better look better than the photos if I will want to use the product. My firsthand look is about to happen, as I purchased a single blank of the "Damascus" a while back. and am about to turn it. Thanks for the description and explanation.
Steve Guzy
 
Michael, I really appreciate that bit of information from manufacturer. So I will try it as soon as I would have opportunity and than have my own opinion.

Thanks to all who answered:)
 
You really have to hold it in your hand to see the value. It feels different. It is heavier and feels more like an expensive material. It is much prettier in person.
 
I look at things from another perspective. Coming from a background of flipping homes, I just could not understand why some customers would want a certain look or certain products in their completely rehabbed home. However I quickly learned that it is not about me and my taste. It is what my customers were asking for and even if they weren't asking, it was what past customers were buying. A lesson learned. Give the customers what they want and/or research what current customers are buying and what fellow businesses are selling.
 
Thanks Mike for the post.... It is nice to see a manufacture who is candid about their AWESOME products.

You have a great product keep up the good work!

Rick
 
I've turned a few pens with the M3 and each one has turned out great. I was pretty busy with life and work at the time so I didn't post any pics here. The biggest thing I noticed was that I had to sharpen my tools a lot but the material was still easy to work with and finished excellently.
 
I've tried M3, and it rocks. If you can sell pens a bit higher price then wooden, I really recommend to try M3, as it looks really expensive and the story that Mike told us about the material helps to sell them.

And yes, it turns like a butter with good carbon steel skew (not-HSS, old english, made in 70th, my favorite tool) much better then a lot of wood, drills without chipouts on the lathe (ohhh, remember Trustone....) and takes significantly less time to make a pen then wood, acrylics, trustone or any other material I've tried (except for oil-finished padauk pens, may be).
Here is a link to one of the pens I've made trying it out: http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/cambridge-lapis-m3-112679/#post1558581
 
I have made several pens out of M3 and in fact, both of my daily carry pens are M3. Why? because I think it looks good, its not a common material, and it is extremely durable. acrylic/resin blanks look neat but they are still plastic and remind many of pens that can be purchased at any store. It could be wood with an exquisite finish on the most exotic grained piece you've ever seen, but to the unknowing it is just a stick. M3 is a metal composite, it is space age, it is stable in every environment that could reasonably be subjected to a pen, and it looks neat.

Im glad to see that you took the plunge into the M3 and gave it a try.
 
yaroslaw said:
...how exactly do you market them? What "stories" do you tell? Or - what sells them....
Click to expand...

I don't know if you have to tell stories. I think the customers are attracted to the appearance of the various materials that adorn our writing instruments. We all have different things that grab our attention. If the customers eye gravitates toward a particular blank (on the pen), then we are able to tell them more about it. The story of Irish Bog Oak will fascinate some and have others eyes rolling into the back of their head.

I find it interesting that you find the blanks boring. I am absolutely fascinated by them. Fixated even. I don't care what it's made of or if it's genuine, I love the look. I've not made one yet. I'm afraid of what might happen if I did. Kids would go hungry, etc.

What is far less appealing to me are people on the forum that jump with both boots down someones throat for asking questions.
 
I have made a few M3 pens and I like the look,feel and the weight of the finished product. Now you guys complain about the price well, by the time that I have a blank in my sweaty paws it is costing me $50. Postage and duty. The point is that if you can not convince your self about the price you will have a hard time convincing the client. It is not Damascus it is only kind of looking like Damascus. I have been lucky and have sold every one that I have made.
I like the stuff and that makes it easy to sell in my opinion

Donovan
 
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